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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > FZ1 Problems & Issues > Gen 2 Problems & Issues

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Old 02-10-2019, 03:11 PM   #21
YamahaMan444
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkie6 View Post
Assuming your rectifier / voltage regulator, i.e. R/R wiring is as follows:

Red = (+) output
Black = (-) output
White = (AC) input x 3

The full test involves 12 individual checks: 3 positive leg diodes forward and reverse bias (6 checks) and 3 negative leg diodes forward and reverse bias (6 checks).

Test the negative leg diodes:

Red meter lead on R/R Black with Black meter lead on each of the three R/R white wires forward biases the three negative leg diodes and you should show ~0.5 volts drop across each one and that appears to be what you got (your meter may show 5xx, but there is likely an implied decimal point in front).

Now you need to reverse the meter leads on the same R/R leads, i.e. Black meter lead on Black R/R wire and Red meter lead on all three white R/R wires individually. You should get OL (open loop or open circuit) or whatever your meter shows with the leads hanging in free air and not touching each other. My cheap meter just shows a "1" on the far left side of the screen if the leads are not touching and "000" if the leads are touching in diode mode. If you get anything other than an open circuit with this check, then you have a shorted diode in one or more of the 3 negative leg diodes.

Now test the 3 positive leg diodes:

Red meter lead on each of the 3 white R/R wires with Black meter lead on Red R/R wire. This forward biases the positive leg diodes and you should get ~0.5 volts drop across each one, or 5xx indication. This appears to be the last check you did above but got a reading less than 0.5 volts or 5xx. This would generally be the case when a diode is shorted as it no longer behaves like a diode but more like a short circuit in both directions. I would perform the next set of three tests to verify a shorted diode.

Now put Black meter lead on each of the 3 white R/R wires with the Red meter lead on the Red R/R wire. This reverse biases the positive leg diodes and you should get OL, 1, or whatever your meter indicates when there is an open circuit. If not, this indicates a shorted diode(s).
Okay well now I’m just confused. Both my reverse tests show OL

Black on black R/R and red on the stator leads all OL.
Red on red R/R and black on the stator leads all OL
Red on black R/R and black on stator all around 550
Black on red R/R and red on stator leads, all 163
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:20 PM   #22
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So my positive diode is messed up? Since the reverse all read OL like they are supposed to is what I gathered from the tutorial to sent me
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:25 PM   #23
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Someone concur please
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:31 PM   #24
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The numbers I gave above were for a Gen 1 FZ1 SCR type shunt regulator / rectifier. With a little searching, it appears the Gen II uses a MOSFET type shunt regulator / rectifier.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...78&postcount=5

Some newer rectifier / regulators use MOSFETs to shunt the current, along with low forward-drop Schottky diodes for rectification of the positive half-cycle. It is these low forward voltage drop Schottky diodes that may be giving the low "163" readings above. I haven't seen the details on the Gen II regulator / rectifier design.

Take a look at the following video showing a test of a MOSFET regulator / rectifier, noting that one of the part numbers in the video matches the Gen II part number in the FZ1OA link above:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q87JmhE5LVk

Shindengen (Japan) is the most common/reputable manufacturer of MOSFET regulators / rectifier, but there are some Chinese clones out there, especially on ebay, that can have poor reliability. Has the R/R been replaced on this bike before?

https://advrider.com/f/threads/fake-...lator.1223588/
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Old 02-10-2019, 07:50 PM   #25
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https://www.shindengen.com/products/...otorcycle/reg/

This appears to be the Gen 1 FZ1 R/R design on the top and the Gen II FZ1 R/R design on the bottom:
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:11 PM   #26
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No idea if itís been replaced before.
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Old 02-10-2019, 08:19 PM   #27
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Well according to your youtube of the MOSFET rectifier the lower number is fine/normal.

So now I’m at a loss

But it has been stated before that the R/R tests fine but is bad.

The stator would be unable to show properly functioning but be actually bad, I would think

Guy online testing a stator with the 200 ohm setting still showed lead to lead .8-.9 ohms resistance. Maybe I need to get a fancier reader with a 2 ohm setting and try it again? Because if the wires don’t have resistance among themselves then the coils have come apart right?
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Old 02-10-2019, 09:35 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by YamahaMan444 View Post
Well according to your youtube of the MOSFET rectifier the lower number is fine/normal.

So now Iím at a loss

But it has been stated before that the R/R tests fine but is bad.

The stator would be unable to show properly functioning but be actually bad, I would think

Guy online testing a stator with the 200 ohm setting still showed lead to lead .8-.9 ohms resistance. Maybe I need to get a fancier reader with a 2 ohm setting and try it again? Because if the wires donít have resistance among themselves then the coils have come apart right?
A reading of 0.00 means you have continuity through the stator windings. That is what you are looking for. The lead-to-lead resistance check is more of a go, no-go test unless you are checking it in a lab under controlled temperature conditions. In real world conditions, if you are getting a lead-to-lead resistance reading in the low single digits or less, i.e. 0.00, then you are a go. If you get very high resistance or OL, then you are a no-go.

The stator functional test is the balanced output voltage with the engine running which in your case appears to be good.

Have you checked and double checked all of the wiring connections between the battery and R/R? Inspect for bent or damaged connector pins. Use your ohm-meter to verify continuity from the battery (+) cable lead (disconnected) and the corresponding red wire that connects to the R/R. Verify continuity from the battery (-) lead (disconnected) to the black wire that connects to the R/R. Also make sure the black wire has continuity to ground (engine case, bare frame, etc.).

With your battery disconnected from the bike and fully charged, make sure it will hold a charge of >12.8 volts for at least several hours after taking it off charge. If not, you may have a shorted cell in the battery and that could be dragging down your charging system voltage. Note that connecting the battery to your vehicle that is not running will not fully charge an AGM battery like in the FZ1. The open circuit voltage on your typical flooded lead-acid battery in your car is 12.65 volts DC. The open circuit voltage on your typical FZ1 AGM battery is 12.84 volts DC. You need a voltage >12.84 volts DC (preferable 13.5 to 14.5 volts DC) to fully charge an FZ1 battery.

If everything checks out and you still have low charging system voltage (<13.0 volts) with the engine running, I would think the problem is most likely in the R/R.
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Old 02-10-2019, 10:41 PM   #29
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CAN I test the R/R functionality by having the stator plugged into the RR but leaving the R/R disconnected from the battery and hook up the multimeter leads straight (red on red black on black) and make sure Iím getting 13.5-14V out of the R/R?

Is that even worth doing?
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:14 AM   #30
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Okay. So looking more.read a big ole ADV thread. Even if the recitifier tests fine, as mentioned, it can still be bad / the regulator function going to the battery can be bad.

So here are two photos. In the second one, where/what wires would he have wired together? Where the battery harness plugs into the R/R is pretty heavy duty and strong. Following it, I know it has to go to the battery but the wires head towards the underside of the gas tank and I canít see it returning to the battery or another connection/connector at the battery. Need to look harder. I probably wonít remove a connector and rewire though.

Going to confirm that the leads/harness going to the battery is good. I do believe I did that with Grommet on the phone and it was good. Will recheck and post back.
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File Type: jpeg 3F63E8B1-9EA7-4E49-8B8B-10DF3A66050A.jpeg (122.3 KB, 63 views)
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:17 AM   #31
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That being said, an eBay replacement R/R from a running/working 2006 FZ1 is only 38$ shipped. I had ordered it before you responded.’I figure I might as well keep it coming?

I figure since I’m flipping it, why spend the 120$ more for a ricks? Don’t worry, I’ll be a real Gen 2 owner soon enough
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:43 AM   #32
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Where you asked about connecting bare wires per the 2nd pic from advrider- what he's talking about is bypassing a bad connector issue. Like you've heard of guys taking out the Gen1 white connector and hooking the wires from one side directly to the corresponding wires from the other side and soldering them together. He's not doing anything to change the RR function or performance.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:56 AM   #33
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Good read going on here. Nothing like learning electrical on the fly!!!
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Old 02-11-2019, 01:51 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
Where you asked about connecting bare wires per the 2nd pic from advrider- what he's talking about is bypassing a bad connector issue. Like you've heard of guys taking out the Gen1 white connector and hooking the wires from one side directly to the corresponding wires from the other side and soldering them together. He's not doing anything to change the RR function or performance.
But if thereís a connector between the harness connection at the R/R and the negative/ground lead of the battery, couldnít that be bad?
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Old 02-11-2019, 03:17 AM   #35
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Yes it could. That's what happens with the white connector on the Gen1. Corrosion in that connector increases resistance, which causes heat, which leads to melting of the connector housing.

I've never heard of a similar issue on a Gen2, but the rusty chain may mean it was left out in the rain a lot, and thus corrosion could be present in any connector.

Good idea to check the entire electrical system and clean all the connector pins, the apply a touch of dielectric grease to them.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:53 AM   #36
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Okay. More numbers. Kinda did more than I needed op probably but this electrical testing is all new to me

Measuring volts - at the battery 11.8V

Red on red black on back at the pin connector - 11.8V

Disconnected battery -

Red multimeter on disconnected red wire from battery and black on the red pin of R/R harness - 0.00 ohms
Red multimeter on disconnected red wire from battery And black on the frame - OL

Red multimeter on disconnected black/ground wire from battery and black on the black pin of the R/R harness - 0.00 ohms
Red multimeter on disconnected black ground wire from battery, black on frame, multiple points - OL
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Old 02-11-2019, 11:54 AM   #37
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Your battery is dead; as in 0% state of charge.

https://www.energymatters.com.au/com...age-discharge/

On that last point above, "Red multimeter on disconnected black ground wire from battery, black on frame, multiple points - OL", indicates you don't have a ground connection from the battery (-) to frame, assuming your measurement was correct, i.e. OL = Open Loop or Open Circuit. You should get 0.00 or low single digit ohms when checking the negative cable battery terminal to frame/ground. I would trace that negative ground wire back from the battery terminal back to where it connects to ground and make sure the connection is clean and tight and then re-check for continuity.
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:19 PM   #38
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Your battery is dead; as in 0% state of charge.

https://www.energymatters.com.au/com...age-discharge/

On that last point above, "Red multimeter on disconnected black ground wire from battery, black on frame, multiple points - OL", indicates you don't have a ground connection from the battery (-) to frame, assuming your measurement was correct, i.e. OL = Open Loop or Open Circuit. You should get 0.00 or low single digit ohms when checking the negative cable battery terminal to frame/ground. I would trace that negative ground wire back from the battery terminal back to where it connects to ground and make sure the connection is clean and tight and then re-check for continuity.
10-4 Iíll go recheck. I probably goofed something.

Went and talked to my long time mechanic. He says the stator is toast. The fact that it isles at low 12 V and that itís only putting out 40 ACV at 5k is wrong. Says it should be 80-90V when disconnected from the R/R and reading directly into multimeter. I was reading on several ADV threads and even a guy with a single cylinder bike was getting 80-90V from 5K load

Also found this. Idk what amp unit the stator is but according to this chart itís wayyyy underperforming per 1000 rpms. I was getting 11V at idle and only 40.5 at 5K

3-4K was 30
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:39 PM   #39
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Would someone with a Gen 2 and multimeter mind disconnecting the 3 pin connector going into the R/R and test 2 of the leads with the bike running and revved and see what the AC v reads please
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Old 02-11-2019, 12:43 PM   #40
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Yep, I’m reading OL. Gonna trace this ground. Goes under the tank. What a pain.

Followed the ground. It’s still in the OEM place and bolted down. Putting the lead directly on that and then the black portion of the frame shows OL. BUT when I check it by putting black multimeter lead on a screw through bolt on the subframe , I get a 1.0 /.9 ohm reading. Checked twice

Checking on a nice shiny bolt in the engine, get .01 ohms from negative cable and this bolt
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Last edited by YamahaMan444; 02-11-2019 at 01:06 PM.
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