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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 2 Exhausts, Fueling & Performance

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Old 05-02-2010, 07:03 PM   #21
Bill3508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miles2912 View Post
So where are you guys getting the plates? I don't mind the popping but mods are fun.
Got my plates from Ivan but others make them. The popping was annoying to me and making my Micron exhaust no sound so great.
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Old 05-03-2010, 02:37 PM   #22
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Nice tips on access...

I'll do this when I get in there for new plugs one of these days.

However, I'm too dang cheap for plates, so I'll just epoxy a penny over the hole, cut down the hose "nipple" and bolt them back into place.

I might hit them with some high temp black paint too, just to keep them low profile, and matching up with the stock look of the motor.
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Old 06-11-2010, 08:34 AM   #23
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Got a lower profile I got from ebay for $6 - APC brand 12mm to replace the $11 from advance auto.

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Old 06-11-2010, 01:42 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyBiker View Post
Tuning will be required to get the A/F right since AIS removal will alter those ratios.
I was thinking about this, and I'm not sure that it matters.

The factory setup has the solenoid to allow air into the exhaust only when the thottle is closed. (On deceleration, or so I've read.)

I've had mine plugged for years, and it has caused zero problems with the fuel tune.

Also, if the air is allowed only when the fuel is minimal anyway, during deceleration, the O2 sensor is not important at that point of the fuel map.

As I understand it, the stock ECU only uses the O2 sensor under about 40% throttle, above that it goes into the programed fuel map, and does not trim or adjust the fuel based on O2 feedback. Below 40% throttle, it does trim/adjust fuel from that O2 feedback, but obviously, it's only going to change injector duty cycle values when the throttle position and MAP indicate there is a load. **Say 25% TPS, and lower air box MAP.**

When you have no load, like when you are slowing down, and the throttle is closed, and MAP values show higher air box pressure. **Say 2% TPS, and higher MAP pressure**

So, basicly, since there is little, or no chance that the fuel is adjusted under those no load conditions when the AIS would be working, if you remove it, there is no effective change in the air fuel ratio anyway.


BTW, on topic, I've looked at this again, and I'd like to remove the hardware and hoses, but will just clamp two plugs on the ports, and use Yamaha's supplied clamps to keep it simple... NO need to remove the plates, turn the little frustrating cap bolts, and who the heck cares if you have CNC plates, or just two .75 cent plugs on there? LOL Opening up the area for more air flow is a good idea, and ditching stuff that no longer is being used is a great idea, but I'm not going to hassle with removing the plates to epoxy the penny over the hole when I can just plug these so easy.
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Last edited by Adjuster; 06-11-2010 at 02:17 PM.
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Old 06-11-2010, 01:46 PM   #25
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You are running full mods without a PC3. So your feel of the bike is different than others, maybe more tolerant
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:21 PM   #26
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PC3 or not, I don't think there is much, if any change in fuel when the throttle is closed on decel. (I know the FCE does "trick" the ECU into thinking MAP values are not what they really are to defeat the "Fuel cut" but it's not going to change the reality that the ECU is not "listening" to the O2 sensor at that moment anway. (Thus no need to change PC3 maps, or even tune for the lack of air from AIS, as the ECU does not care.)

The FCE might be one of the reasons why with the AIS still working, the bike really pops however. (It is afterall, adding fuel by tricking the ECU into thinking the MAP signal is lower than it really is... so there is a slight amount of fuel even when the throttle is closed, causing a richer than stock condition on deceleration.. so add the air via the AIS, and you get the popping even more than on a stock bike in theory...)

Just thinking off the top of my head, but it makes sense.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:31 PM   #27
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Good logic there. Learned something new today.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:34 PM   #28
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So does that mean less mpg with the FCE? I think people have noticed the opposite.
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Old 06-11-2010, 02:50 PM   #29
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I can't explain the fuel economy..

It is sort of why do many who add a supercharger to their car claim they get better fuel economy than stock?

I contend you make better power off the line, so you need less throttle to achieve the same speed, thus you end up using less total fuel in the long run with the same kind of driving/riding.

We know the FCE results in the subthrottles opening up sooner, thus improving mid range power on a stock bike, and any bike with plates still in there, or open.

This "bump" in airflow, combined with the small amount of fuel results in better low/midrange power, and it takes less total throttle to get the bike going?

Just my theory, but I've seen more than a few people add superchargers and bigger turbo chargers and get better fuel economy when they are not blazing for full power, but just driving like normal. (Heck, my own Supra with a built motor, and larger than stock turbo/injectors and more displacement exceeded 30mpg at steady speeds of 83mph. Why? I have no idea, but before on the stock stuff, it was lucky to get 28mpg at 70mph, and perhaps 25 at 83mph on a good day with no headwind.)

On the cars, lowering helps more than you think, but generally people tend to go with wider tires, and they lower the car, and that sort of cancels out the gains you would see by lowering the car alone. Cleaning up the underside with a good front splitter and rear defuser can also produce some gains, but slapping a tall wing on the car mostly creates drag that negates any gains from the other positives... (Especially at higher speeds.)

I did find out on a Q45, and my own Supra, that running without the front undertray can adversely affect fuel economy. (Especially if they are hanging down, creating drag.)

The undersides of many new cars have very interesting areo tricks. Panels that look like golf balls, small wings that flip the airflow down away from the rear suspension for example, and smooth bottem designs are all becoming more common as fuel economy becomes more important.
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Old 08-12-2010, 09:57 AM   #30
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Just got the Ivan's version of these installed thanks to this thread. I agree with your first statement. This was a PITA install. Didn't help my garage was about 95 degrees either. It's done, haven't got a chance to test out since I need to get a cap for the airbox, but it does clean up the area around the plugs nicely.
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Old 11-22-2010, 08:50 AM   #31
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Has any of you guys done anything on the reed valves under the plates? I saw a post on R6 forum where the poster recommended to mod the valves to block them. Is that really necessary? Could someone explain why? Thanks!
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Old 11-22-2010, 09:42 AM   #32
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Leave them alone. With the block off plates in place nothing is flowing.
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:23 PM   #33
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so, its OK to do this mod while Im in there doing the FCE even though the bike is completely stock otherwise?
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Old 01-03-2011, 04:33 PM   #34
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This mod is needed with a gutted stock system or aftermarket. With just a FCE you shouldn't get any backfire.
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Old 02-12-2011, 07:32 AM   #35
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this is one PITA job! but accomplished nonetheless.. without this thread, it be a gazillion PITA.. LoL.. the only additional step i took was to apply gasket sealer to finish it off..

Last edited by CrossOver; 02-12-2011 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 02-12-2011, 08:10 PM   #36
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i missed out taking the pictures while fixing the plates.. got mine from tpo-parts with the whole range of caps.. awesome deal.. i only have pic of them fixed on with the radiator up.. so the pic is not that clear..





sloppy job on the sealant, but as long they do the job, im happy..
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Old 03-07-2012, 07:50 PM   #37
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Pulled off plates tonight. Graves plates that I ordered not here yet. Noticed a stud sticking up from the inner reed plates. Do these studs interfere with the block off plates??? Or do the block off plates have a machined spot so the studs don't interfere with the block off plates? Also do you leave the 4 clips/brackets in, that sit under the reed plates?
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Old 03-26-2012, 10:17 AM   #38
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I installed my Roth plates this weekend, and I will have to agree with Fizzman!
Lowering the radiator assembly was not good enough. Way too tight!!
Disconnecting the three main hoses was enough to move it so it was out of the way!!!
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Old 03-26-2012, 11:18 AM   #39
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You must be having monster hands
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Old 11-11-2012, 07:32 PM   #40
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Installed my Roth AIS block off plates today, they fit perfect and I was able to get at them no problem by just lowering the rad. You definitely need the ratchet and an allen key bit, no way would I try it with just a normal allen key you would be there forever! Thanks guys.
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