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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 2 Exhausts, Fueling & Performance

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Old 06-02-2006, 01:08 PM   #21
Dek
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Steve,
I paid for a PC111 custom map specifically for my setup.
When I receive it from the tuner I shall post it here.
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Old 06-02-2006, 01:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barryc
OK, I will break the tension here with this free map.

barryc

Hey... you flipped Illinois!
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Old 06-02-2006, 01:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dek
Steve,
I paid for a PC111 custom map specifically for my setup.
When I receive it from the tuner I shall post it here.
Dek
Dek

Don't post it here. Send it to me. I will create a page on the web site where these files can be accessed. It's important that control over where and how these are posted is maintained so that there are no issues with protected maps.

Steve
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Old 06-02-2006, 01:38 PM   #24
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Steve,
I shall do exactly as you wish.
I also intend gaining the permission of the tuner, but don,t foresee a problem.
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Old 06-02-2006, 02:07 PM   #25
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Thanks Dek

I appreciated it.
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Old 06-02-2006, 04:06 PM   #26
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Steve,

I can send you the dynojet program....
(I have a ton of copies of it from PC3's that I have installed) so you can read the maps before you post them.


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Old 06-02-2006, 04:12 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan
Steve,

I can send you the dynojet program....
(I have a ton of copies of it from PC3's that I have installed) so you can read the maps before you post them.


Ivan
Thanks Ivan but I already have it. I have a PCIII on my FJR.
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Old 06-03-2006, 09:12 AM   #28
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This is an interesting topic. In all my previous PC experience, I bought the PC from Dan Kyle at Kyle USA, who would develop custom maps for specific bike/pipe combinations. If you bought the PC from him, he would load the best available map, no charge; and if you needed another map, he would e-mail it to you, no charge. We swapped .pc3 files on Rogue and NakedBikes.net (may it RIP) like music downloaders, no problems. My best 919 map came from a rider in Australia, can't remember his name, who posted his map on the PowerCommander.com website. In fact, I'd recommend not only posting maps here, but also uploading them to the PowerCommander.com map page for everyone to reference.

I can understand tuners who make huge investments in the dyno equipment to do custom maps for a rider. But for someone like me, whose chances of getting to the nearest Dyno 250 for a day are next to zero, I'd gladly pay someone fo a copy of a good map, and be very, very likely to buy beverages and food for someone who just said "here, try my map". I"d recommend that the tuners offer a list of thier maps for distribution for a nominal fee; hell, just do it on the honor system We're all honest here, right? The benefits are obvious. Valid points have been previously made about those who want the last ounce of performance needing to have their specific bikes custom tuned instead or relying on someone else's maps; these people will still seek out dyno tuning services.

With respect to the tuners, there is no way in hell that this is going to be stopped. Tuners and riders will have to rely on their own "gentleman's" aggreement with regards to the propriety of the map. Speaking for myself, I'm in wArDoGs camp; if I can provide something to help another rider enjoy the season, here, take my map, please.


Peace out,

Zen
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Old 06-03-2006, 10:02 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbiker
With respect to the tuners, there is no way in hell that this is going to be stopped. Tuners and riders will have to rely on their own "gentleman's" aggreement with regards to the propriety of the map. Speaking for myself, I'm in wArDoGs camp; if I can provide something to help another rider enjoy the season, here, take my map, please.
Just because people are willing to steal others intellectual property doesn't make it right. The development of a good map costs money. The development of a really good map costs even more. If tuners can't recoup their R&D costs for a project, they won't undertake it and then we'll all lose.
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Old 06-03-2006, 06:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70super
Just because people are willing to steal others intellectual property doesn't make it right. The development of a good map costs money. The development of a really good map costs even more. If tuners can't recoup their R&D costs for a project, they won't undertake it and then we'll all lose.
Intellectual property?



With respect, this is way off base. Maps are not intellectual property. Unless the tuner copyrights that specific map and forces you to sign an exclusivity agreement (which would be non-enforceable), then you can share it however you please. And remember: with just a few mouse clicks, it's a different map. What then, Brutus? I mean, if you really want to go outside and get ugly down in the dirt, following the "intellecutal property argument", technically no tuner should be able to develop a map that is basically a modification of the Yamaha map!

If I pay for a map, I can share my map. Flip side of the coin for you: I've got a map that you desperately need for tomorrow's ride/race; you're my asshole buddy. email, pop, click, you're there. Enjoy your "intellectual property". This is the reality of today's modern tuning world where the computer replaces the pilot jets. Dynojet gets a boatload of bling for the PCIII (a helluva lot more than a jet kit used to cost), and you want it modded, then you pay a tuner to do it for you.

The point is likely to be made that if we share our maps, tuners will go broke. Again, bullshit. Any tuner who thinks they're going to make a killing or get rich or keep bread on the table making custom maps is operating on a faulty business model; if you're shop is that dead or that focussed, you're going under anyway, and a Dyno250 isn't going ot float you. You make the maps after you sell the customer the shiznit that makes them want the map. What next: I can't sell a bike that has a map on it that was custom made because that would be "distributing intellectual property"? Actually, as screwed up as this world has become, I can see that happening.

Finally, the point that "a really good map...costs money". Hell yeah; I've paid to have it done. It was a benefit to the tuner. If I wasn't there with my bike, he wouldn't have had four hours dyno time to bill. This map didn't cost the tuner anything; it made him money. Further arguments could ensue that the map now belongs to me and that the tuner should have to pay me to distribute it without my consent!

Bottom line: everybody here will do as they want with their maps once they get them. Like I said, you can't stop it; this isn't copyrighted music. It may seem a newer concept to FZ1 owners since the '06 is the first FI model. Me, I'm willing to give a few bucks to a guy who spent his own money and put his bike through the thrashing that a new map takes, but if they want to share it out of their love of fellow man or whatever, good on them.

Give the "intellectual property" bit a rest, get on your bike and go ride. Nobody is stealing anything from anybody. Map sharing is nothing new, and it would be great for everyone here to be able to have access to each other's data.

Including the other tuners....

Peace out,

Zen

PS: right now, Dynojet has 406 User Submitted Maps on their website that guys like us have uploaded to their site.
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Old 06-03-2006, 07:00 PM   #31
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I am probably way off base, I usually am, but if Ivan or Dale or anybody with that caliber reputation has a map or maps for the 06 FZ1 I would be happy to pay them for it. If they tell me not to post it anywhere, I wouldn't out of respect for their livelihood. A man has to put food on the table. On the other hand, if I go out and pay for dyno time and get a map that I'm happy with I will share it here because I get lots of free info here that helps me enjoy my bike that much more. Ivans jet kit for the 05 is with out a doubt the most trouble free, works as advertised, horsepower maker for the buck I have ever installed on any motorcycle. I understand Dales is of the same quality. To me and most of us here on this forum this is a hobby, to the mechanics its a business and we should respect their wishes. Just my opinion.
Track day tomorrow, wish I had Ivans map to put on the pc111. Whatever map came with the pc 111 is crap.

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Old 06-04-2006, 03:47 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenbiker
Intellectual property?



With respect, this is way off base. Maps are not intellectual property. Unless the tuner copyrights that specific map and forces you to sign an exclusivity agreement (which would be non-enforceable), then you can share it however you please. And remember: with just a few mouse clicks, it's a different map. What then, Brutus? I mean, if you really want to go outside and get ugly down in the dirt, following the "intellecutal property argument", technically no tuner should be able to develop a map that is basically a modification of the Yamaha map!
How is a tuner developing a new map any different than Microsoft developing a new version of Windows?
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Old 06-04-2006, 05:05 AM   #33
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The bottom line is it doesn't much matter if a map falls under intellectual property or not. I used those words for lack of better ones.

We won't be openly swapping maps on the forums here unless they are submitted to the staff and posted in the appropriate forum/web page by the staff. The staff will do everything in our power to protect maps sold commercially. IMO there is a very clear distinction between the two.
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:38 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barryc
I am probably way off base, I usually am, but if Ivan or Dale or anybody with that caliber reputation has a map or maps for the 06 FZ1 I would be happy to pay them for it. If they tell me not to post it anywhere, I wouldn't out of respect for their livelihood. A man has to put food on the table. On the other hand, if I go out and pay for dyno time and get a map that I'm happy with I will share it here because I get lots of free info here that helps me enjoy my bike that much more. Ivans jet kit for the 05 is with out a doubt the most trouble free, works as advertised, horsepower maker for the buck I have ever installed on any motorcycle. I understand Dales is of the same quality. To me and most of us here on this forum this is a hobby, to the mechanics its a business and we should respect their wishes. Just my opinion.
Track day tomorrow, wish I had Ivans map to put on the pc111. Whatever map came with the pc 111 is crap.

barryc

Barry, I think you're square on base. You said it better than I did.
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Old 06-07-2006, 02:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 70super
How is a tuner developing a new map any different than Microsoft developing a new version of Windows?
Peace out, my brother. The only humble recommendation I can make is be careful about basing any of your arguments on what Microsoft does...

Zen
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Old 06-11-2006, 08:18 PM   #36
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So, now that we all got a lesson on the shareware copyright law of PC3 maps, getting back to why I'm checking this thread out in the first place...

Now that we all have our PC3's on the way from CycleMart USA for the amazing price of $254, how about posting those maps? Am I just slow, or are they already posted? All I see on Dynojet's website is a stock map... although, I guess since I'm totally stocked out right now, that should be good (?)... Thanks!
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Old 06-11-2006, 09:09 PM   #37
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There are no maps posted yet.
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Old 06-12-2006, 06:31 AM   #38
zenbiker
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Originally Posted by crwolf79
So, now that we all got a lesson on the shareware copyright law of PC3 maps, getting back to why I'm checking this thread out in the first place...

Now that we all have our PC3's on the way from CycleMart USA for the amazing price of $254, how about posting those maps? Am I just slow, or are they already posted? All I see on Dynojet's website is a stock map... although, I guess since I'm totally stocked out right now, that should be good (?)... Thanks!
Hang in there, Wolf. We're in the infancy of developing whatever untapped potential this bike has. The fact that we even have the bike at all is a minor miracle. I predict that it will be August before we have available new maps for stock form and maybe one or two specific pipes (Dek's notwithstanding). There will be a smattering of maybe three or four variations over the next six months, and that will pretty much be it.

This bike is out in such limited quantities that the manufacturers and tuners just aren't going to spend a lot of time right off the bat in development. The market is small and the supply of bikes is even smaller. This isn't like an RC51 which generated a modification craze the likes of which have yet to be rivalled in the sportbike industry. I think we're all going to be tinkering with our own maps more than each other's for a while. Of course, that's not stopping me from trolling here a couple of times a day for the most up to date input...

Zen
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Old 06-17-2006, 04:12 PM   #39
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Dek,

Your map, please!
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Old 06-17-2006, 04:36 PM   #40
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Dek,

Your map, please!
Yeah, Dek, we're all jonesin' for a copy, and like I said, I'm more than happy to chip in towards your development costs. A pint for you, a pint for the bar, and the barkeep's pint as well...
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