make a donation to the fz1oa
fz1oa chat
fz1oa picture uploader
maintain your own photo albums
locate fz1oa members
Members Assistance Guide
search the entire board
click here for fz1oa web site home page
register a new account, it's free!
fz1oa store
email the fz1oa webmasters
read the fz1oa guidelines
read the fz1oa policy
open pat's fz1 site in a new window
open iowaz fz1 site in a new window
technical tips

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 1 Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-16-2017, 05:40 PM   #1
K-FZ1-02
Registered User
 
K-FZ1-02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 18
Ported boots causing motor to run hot?

2002 FZ1...Because I could not stand the imprecise nature of the stock manifold boots on my carbs (constricted and not properly fitting the engine ports), I ported them or smoothed them out to fit the ports as best I could. I did a pretty accurate job. They are all at the same size and shape. This gave me an immediate improvement in breathing and performance and I could hear it as soon as I started it up. I have covered quite a few miles since then on trips, etc.
The weather has warmed up somewhat in Florida and I think the bike is running hotter than I would like. I installed part of Ivan's kit which was just the needles and drilled the pilot bypass screws which finally cured most of my throttle surge which has been killing me for six months. I set the pilot screws at 4.5 turns. It still seems to be running hot to me. I have 2 pieces of Givi luggage and full loaded it will still cruise faster than I can. I am curious how hot this motor should be running and if I must go back to the stock boots to cool it off? Motor coolant is not boiling off and all seems ok in the cooling system , having checked all the standard problems. TPS was reset at 3800 rpm as per instructions. I was wondering if reducing the amount of antifreeze in mix would help it run cooler? Fan is OK.
Later: I finally opened the holes in the throttle slides and shimmed up Ivan's jet needles .030 richer than richest (lowest slot). Now it seems to be running cooler but my gas mileage down from 50 to low 40's mpg. I have not gotten around to putting in the 122.5 main jets yet and the floats are still at 13.5mm. I have been doing as time allows. I am going to have to pull out the carbs to add the main jets and redo the floats so my big question is. Am I going to have to go back to the stock carb boots to have it running at a more comfortable temp without feeding it so much gas? Since I ported the boots and added Ivan's needles the spark plugs have been burning a nice grey. My exhaust is stock. I would prefer to change the carb boots and main jets at the same time if I have to, but do I have to?
Do ported boots naturally cause it to run so lean that it is hot most of the time or is there any other possibility? I have checked through all standard with the cooling system. I had a battery issue (9AH) in stead of 12ah and the indicator lights and speedometer would go crazy in stopped traffic and I could not see if it was overheating or too weak a battery. Since putting in the right battery that has stopped. I hope I explained things well enough to understand and any helpfull feedback would be appreciated.
Kent
K-FZ1-02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 11:05 PM   #2
YamahaMan444
Young Explorer
 
YamahaMan444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 4,188
Unless you are monitoring coolant temp with a gauge, or that little red light is coming on, how do you know its running hotter? I rode around yesterday and swore the engine was on fire. It was also 90 degrees. I think its normal.
__________________
.
YamahaMan444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-16-2017, 11:46 PM   #3
Falcon 269
Just passing through
 
Falcon 269's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Over the hill and far away
Posts: 8,106
I can tell you positively that your hot running is nothing to do with the ported boots. I've installed several hundred of Ivan's kits over the years and it makes no difference whatsoever to engine operating temp.

I can also tell you that until you install Ivan's kit completely and in accordance with his instructions to the letter, you're wasting your time - and ours - asking these questions. Ivan's needles are designed to work with 122.5 mains not the 130/132.5 stock mains so it's no wonder your gas mileage is crap! Same goes for messing with the recommended needle height and float levels. Do it right, fer Pete's sake.
__________________
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools
Falcon 269 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 02:55 AM   #4
iluvmyfz1
Just enjoy the machine....
 
iluvmyfz1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Lake Park, FL
Posts: 4,172
Based on observations of my coolant temp gauge versus ambient temps, my engine runs hotter in summer (ambient >75F) than it does in winter (ambient <65F). All within normal range though. Fan kicks in around 212F, usually only when in traffic. Sounds like your bike temps are normal.

Get those carbs squared away though.
__________________
-'03 FZ1- "Xena"- Custom Orange/Red paint- FuzzyOne mirror mod- SW Motech QR racks- Givi E460 top- E21 side cases- SS brake lines - Scorpion slip-on- R6 shock- Throttlemeisters- Sargent seat- R1 shift arm- Custom sprocket cover- Cheap ass battery- Extended passenger pegs - Gauge of Eternal Coolness - Valtermoto Rearsets - HIDs -

Last edited by iluvmyfz1; 05-17-2017 at 06:01 AM.
iluvmyfz1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 06:47 AM   #5
K-FZ1-02
Registered User
 
K-FZ1-02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 18
"I can tell you positively that your hot running is nothing to do with the ported boots. I've installed several hundred of Ivan's kits over the years and it makes no difference whatsoever to engine operating temp."
I do not think I am wasting your time because you told me exactly what I needed to hear. I ride this bike about every day and time and energy to get it working the way it should is limited.
I am glad to hear that the ported boots could not be the problem. When I got this bike I had no idea of the amount of work it was going to take and money....and the amount of things I was going to have to learn. This bike ran about as smooth as bucking horse when I got it so it has been a slow development to get it right and everyone does not have the right answers. It is the first liquid cooled engine I have worked on so I was just trying to get opinions.
Thanks for the opinions. If I knew all the answers I would not have to ask questions.
K-FZ1-02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 07:27 AM   #6
thumperjockey
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Montana
Posts: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by K-FZ1-02 View Post
"I can tell you positively that your hot running is nothing to do with the ported boots. I've installed several hundred of Ivan's kits over the years and it makes no difference whatsoever to engine operating temp."
I do not think I am wasting your time because you told me exactly what I needed to hear. I ride this bike about every day and time and energy to get it working the way it should is limited.
I am glad to hear that the ported boots could not be the problem. When I got this bike I had no idea of the amount of work it was going to take and money....and the amount of things I was going to have to learn. This bike ran about as smooth as bucking horse when I got it so it has been a slow development to get it right and everyone does not have the right answers. It is the first liquid cooled engine I have worked on so I was just trying to get opinions.
Thanks for the opinions. If I knew all the answers I would not have to ask questions.
Don't worry about it, man. He was just frustrated that you deviated from Ivan's instructions when that kit is so well done. I have yet to see anyone that had issues with it when the instructions were followed. Just do as they say and you'll be happy you did.
thumperjockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 07:29 AM   #7
AndyW
Dumbass with a full PM inbox..
 
AndyW's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 22,546
"if it ain't broke, don't fix it"..

You're complaining about "all the work" but most people have never touched the boots, and many are running stock carbs. If you're having issues, there's something is either blocked or broken.
__________________
'01 FZ1 set up for distance
'07 FZ1 set up for fun
(both in the *faster* blue)


Which would you prefer?
AndyW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 09:56 AM   #8
iluvmyfz1
Just enjoy the machine....
 
iluvmyfz1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Lake Park, FL
Posts: 4,172
Stock carbs and jetting from 2003, and with a slip-on exhaust, mine runs fine.

To your comment, "The weather has warmed up somewhat in Florida and I think the bike is running hotter than I would like", I would say, it will run hotter, on average, during warmer weather, and you will also feel the heat more on those same days, as less heat is lost in the slipstream. Positive + positive, so to speak, but no cause for concern.

From your description of work done, I think you need to complete the jetting process exactly per the kit directions. Carb work isn't something you should do a little at a time. Then go from there. As stated, porting the boots should have nothing to do with coolant temps.

Don't worry about fuel mileage til the setup is running smoothly overall. Then you can use it as a barometer of sorts.

Install a coolant temp gauge, or Multigauge, to get real data on your temps.
__________________
-'03 FZ1- "Xena"- Custom Orange/Red paint- FuzzyOne mirror mod- SW Motech QR racks- Givi E460 top- E21 side cases- SS brake lines - Scorpion slip-on- R6 shock- Throttlemeisters- Sargent seat- R1 shift arm- Custom sprocket cover- Cheap ass battery- Extended passenger pegs - Gauge of Eternal Coolness - Valtermoto Rearsets - HIDs -
iluvmyfz1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2017, 01:58 PM   #9
K-FZ1-02
Registered User
 
K-FZ1-02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 18
I did not realize till I got it home (after buying it) that it was on the edge with the throttle so sensitive that you could not hold a set speed without it surging dangerously and I presume from all of the excess of the 3 pieces of luggage and slamming through the gears, (by previous owner) the drive train was real loose. I've worked with what I have and maybe I should have tried to give it back but I already had my mind set on it. With the boots what I was trying to address was the smoothness of flow figuring that the turbulence from the boots (small diameter) was affecting the slide steadiness and hence the constant surging. This bike had sat for quite a few years and when I first cleaned the carbs some pilot jets and starter jets were clogged. Now, first kick on the starter starts her right up first time regardless of conditions, dependable a clockwork. I will get the carb kit finished as soon as possible and will be looking for a temp gauge. I am learning on the way. I appreciate the input.
K-FZ1-02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 01:06 AM   #10
Falcon 269
Just passing through
 
Falcon 269's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Over the hill and far away
Posts: 8,106
Yeah, thumperjockey got it right. Sorry, but after years on here it's frustrating when folks still pop up with questions about their carbs when right from the outset they have identified the problem themselves. To me it's intuitively obvious than only partially installing any jet kit is asking for running issues.

You've already determined that blocked pilot jets and passageways were the prime cause of your lean surge condition and you've mostly fixed that. I'd recommend running a few tanks of fuel through with carb cleaning additive to continue the process. Do the jet kit install completely and correctly and you'll come to love this motor.

And move north if you don't like the heat ...

Just kidding!
__________________
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools
Falcon 269 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 01:07 AM   #11
Falcon 269
Just passing through
 
Falcon 269's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Over the hill and far away
Posts: 8,106
Yeah, thumperjockey got it right. Sorry, but after years on here it's frustrating when folks still pop up with questions about their carbs when right from the outset they have identified the problem themselves. To me it's intuitively obvious than only partially installing any jet kit is asking for running issues.

You've already determined that blocked pilot jets and passageways were the prime cause of your lean surge condition and you've mostly fixed that. I'd recommend running a few tanks of fuel through with carb cleaning additive to continue the process. Do the jet kit install completely and correctly and you'll come to love this motor.

And move north if you don't like the heat ...

Just kidding!
__________________
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools
Falcon 269 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 01:41 AM   #12
YamahaMan444
Young Explorer
 
YamahaMan444's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 4,188
I don't understand how surging would leave you to believe its a carb issue. Surging at a constant throttle input would make me believe a vacuum or air leak, possibly carb boots.

Like Iluvmyfz1, stock carbs, stock jetting, just a slip on, never ever have had surging except for the slight idle needle movement. 53K miles. Multiple crashes.

If you don't follow the instructions to the letter, you can't expect performance and smoothness gains to the same letter.
__________________
.
YamahaMan444 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-18-2017, 04:32 AM   #13
K-FZ1-02
Registered User
 
K-FZ1-02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 18
To be honest I have been experimenting and I know Ivan's kit must be installed properly. Drilling the bypass holes seemed to be a great relief. When I get the 122.5 main jets in that should balance things out properly. I know how one can be frustrated when you learn to do things the way they should be done and someone else does not. It seems if I am concerned with the heat issue I should go with water temp gauge and fan switch so the heat can be regulated. It was not just the pilot and starter jets that were clogged but the float needles were so bottomed out that the float level could not be set. (got new ones) I think there was also some crud build-up on the slides that impeded their movement. The carb boots are all squared away and nothing like a leak. Way back there I added some Seafoam to the gas and it did not help my carbs dissolved whatever in my fuel tank pet-cock so the fuel cannot be turned off completely and that is something else waiting to fix. As soon as I find time I will get the rest of Ivan's kit in and all will be happily ever after. I hope I did not miss anything. Thanks for all the input.
K-FZ1-02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2017, 08:44 AM   #14
K-FZ1-02
Registered User
 
K-FZ1-02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: NW Florida
Posts: 18
OK, so following my first test ride, I would say problem solved. I put together the time to pull the carbs set the floats, pilot screws and install the main jets and set the jet needles back. Very nice. I think I have the power to to lift the front in second or third with just the throttle, but I did not. Not much room for carelessness around here. At about 70 degrees outside temp was OK and even seemed to get cooler when I came to a stop. Another test and will see if there are any bugs. Thanks for all the help. I haven't even synced the carbs yet but it does not even sound like it needs it. Feels just about like it should, smooth and full of power.
K-FZ1-02 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2017, 03:08 PM   #15
WDD
Registered User
 
WDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 8,517
Glad you got it sorted out.

Since this bike is still fairly new to you, and you're not afraid to open up the tool box, I'd take a look at "Pat's FZ1 Site" on the upper right of the forum page.

There you can see several items to check over. Top 3 for your bike IMHO would be:
1) Chain Slack
2) Exup Value check and lube
3) Change coolant

BTW - how are the tires? If the bike's been sitting for a while, the tires might be a bit old and hard? Tires / Suspension are the most important thing to keep on top of.

After that, I'd say dig into other topics such as putting correct sized springs and new fluid in your forks, swingarm grease, etc.

The Gen 1 FZ is a great bike - you should be set for a good summer of riding!
__________________
Not sure what I should put down for my signature.....
WDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-21-2017, 03:46 PM   #16
treeguy
Registered User
 
treeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: New Windsor NY
Posts: 1,785
Ivan spent an unusually high number of hours developing the jet kit for the FZ1.
Many factors involved. Trial and error. Dyno runs. Ect.
All the puzzle pieces work together.
treeguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 1 Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49 PM.


Questions? Comments?
Click on name below to contact via PM
Rabeet (Admin) Desmo (Admin)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website and Message Board Contents Copyright 2001-2007 FZ1OA
The marks YAMAHA® and FZ1® are used under license from Yamaha Motor Corporation, U.S.A.
The information on this web site is NOT approved or endorsed by Yamaha Motor Corporation in any way.
Page generated in 0.08906 seconds with 11 queries