Synthetic Oil Experiences - Page 10

rdcusmc · 02-10-2019, 11:31 AM

I guess she found out who the dipstick was as opposed to what a dipstick is...

SMH

Dean Dinnetz · 02-10-2019, 12:28 PM

I remember an old girl friend saying, and i quote, "I don't check oil, men check oil"!

I then said, and when you don't check the oil, men will then take all the money out of your purse/bank account, to repair your blown up engine!

She started checking her oil, after i showed her how to do it.

Dean

OldBiker · 02-11-2019, 06:21 AM

It's not just women, I knew a guy who was asking everyone at a ski club meeting about how often they check their oil. I had a 88 Mustang 5.0 GT at the time and told him I check every other gas fill. Then I asked him, he never checked the oil in his Toyota Cressida and the engine blew. He had about 30,000 miles on it when the engine blew. His comment was that it was a Toyota and they don't need service. DUH!!

longeze · 02-11-2019, 10:35 AM

Another vote for Mobil 1 here. I ran a lap and a half at Elkhart Lake(4 mile track) with a broken oil pump drive belt in a dry sump system(no splash lubrication) to finish the race at the June Sprints. To my surprise, I finished without losing my position.

Afterward, when I tore the engine down, there was no sign of overheating or excessive wear on any of the crank or cam bearings or journals. I was(& still am) astounded.

glory racing · 02-11-2019, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by longeze

Another vote for Mobil 1 here. I ran a lap and a half at Elkhart Lake(4 mile track) with a broken oil pump drive belt in a dry sump system(no splash lubrication) to finish the race at the June Sprints. To my surprise, I finished without losing my position.

Afterward, when I tore the engine down, there was no sign of overheating or excessive wear on any of the crank or cam bearings or journals. I was(& still am) astounded.

My sons dumbass mechanic sent him out for a 12 minute moto with zero oil in the crankcase. This was an 85cc 2 stroke with the majority of the run time literally at WFO. Nary an issue for MANY more motos afterwards.

The oil in the bike was changed often so we did not run expensive oils. I don't recall the specific brand but I would say it was just the most affordable dino automotive oil available at Walmart at the time of purchase.

The standards for oils are pretty darn good.

JerseyDiesel · 02-11-2019, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glory racing

My sons dumbass mechanic sent him out for a 12 minute moto with zero oil in the crankcase. This was an 85cc 2 stroke with the majority of the run time literally at WFO. Nary an issue for MANY more motos afterwards.

The oil in the bike was changed often so we did not run expensive oils. I don't recall the specific brand but I would say it was just the most affordable dino automotive oil available at Walmart at the time of purchase.

The standards for oils are pretty darn good.

I am old, so I have owned many 2-strokes. I never ran oil in the crankcase. I never had one fail on me.

glory racing · 02-11-2019, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyDiesel

I am old, so I have owned many 2-strokes. I never ran oil in the crankcase. I never had one fail on me.

No oil ever??? What would be the reason?

sloowpoke · 02-11-2019, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glory racing

No oil ever??? What would be the reason?

The oil gets mixed into the gas and lubricates the lower end as it passes through the crankase as vapor. Lots of small 2-stroke motors still work that way... weed wackers & chainsaws come to mind.

glory racing · 02-11-2019, 05:11 PM

I raced 'em for years and pretty sure that they need oil. The premix is for the topend but not the gearbox. Jus sayin'.

MichaelFZ1 · 02-11-2019, 05:24 PM

What glory said.

There’s still oil in the transmission and for the clutch. It has a service life like anything else. Especially on a two stroke motorcycle, where feathering the clutch is mandatory.

wotnnc · 02-11-2019, 05:26 PM

They need oil in the transmission.
On the 2 stroke Suzuki's I used to ride, the crank bearing on the clutch side was lubricated by the gear oil and the one on the flywheel side had an oil injection line going straight to it, but everything else in the engine was lubed by the oil in the gas.
This is an exception to the rule because the great majority of 2 strokes get no lubrication except through the premix. Those old oil injection bikes were a bit different. They could be run on premix after opening up the case around the flywheel side crank bearing, if you tried it without doing that, the bearing wouldn't get enough oil.

WileyLogHomes · 02-11-2019, 06:05 PM

Motor top and bottom end are lubricated via the premix, transmission and clutch are lubricated with the gear oil.

longeze · 02-11-2019, 09:16 PM

With the idea of advancing the original question, I mentioned my experience with Mobil 1 at RA, specifically because of the type of stresses placed on the engine from running WOT for long periods of time in a 4 cycle high performance engine, running without proper lubrication. The heat and stresses imposed on the oil by the gearbox in a 2 cycle 85cc engine in a motoX event aren't the same, nor is the viscosity(80w90?), so I don't think it's a fair comparison or reasonable conclusion to say that any oil would provide similar protection under the circumstance I mentioned, just because oil technology has improved generally over the last several decades.

It may well be that any synthetic you buy at Walmart, regardless of brand would perform equally well - as Glory points out. They're likely all refined by one of a few principal refineries, but I have no direct experience to represent that assumption to the OP as he requested.

At the time, I considered the cost of running Mobil 1 to be cheap insurance. I had heard numerous stories similar to the one I posted, from others. Since most of the guys I raced with were also running it, I decided to follow suit and switch brands. I had always used Kendall oil previously.

When I was racing 2 cycle engines, most everyone ran Castor "R" as their beverage of choice. While I'd never run it in my bikes crankcase, I'd like to - the stuff smells great! My point being that different applications have different demands that favor different brands.

With ridiculously short engine life, high parts, labor & machining costs, and with the prospect of outright failure being unacceptable, I believe racing communities are pretty good at ferreting out best of breed as long as an oil company isn't a sponsor.

To the OP's second revised question about excessive oil consumption when running Mobil 1 synthetic: I've experienced the same issues as yourself when running it - ie. My oil consumption goes up and my gearbox shifts smoother. I've gone back to running dino oil in my Gen1. I'm sure the protection isn't as good as Mobil 1 and I don't like the noticeable decrease in performance, but I hate adding oil all the time and the stuff is pricey. My bike will almost certainly outlive me no matter what I run and since I'm not racing, I've joined the ranks of ride more, worry less.

PS: My guess is that the synthetic is getting past the valve guide seals which would account for the excessive oil consumption. For all I know, the stuff might be sticking to the cylinder walls so well that its getting burned off with every ignition event. If I cared more, I'd try running a heavier weight synthetic to see if the problem persisted. Good luck with your bike!

sloowpoke · 02-12-2019, 04:09 PM

Well, The only real difference I have personally noticed between synthetic and good dino oil was... When I opened the motor up, the synthetic oil left less crud to clean out. I didn't see any difference in wear. This was when I was riding bikes that didn't use the engine oil in the tranny and I quit riding bikes that needed to have ring & valve jobs every 40,000 miles back before the turn of the century.

I haven't actually opened up a motor that wasn't electric, in about 20 years now. If I have to take an engine apart now, it's just to turn it into smaller chunks that can be tossed into the trash.

02-10-2019, 11:31 AM	#181
rdcusmc Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,837	I guess she found out who the dipstick was as opposed to what a dipstick is... SMH __________________ "The Few. The Proud. The Marines!" 2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod (in progress).

02-11-2019, 05:11 PM	#189
glory racing Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Harrison, AR Posts: 1,339	I raced 'em for years and pretty sure that they need oil. The premix is for the topend but not the gearbox. Jus sayin'. Last edited by glory racing; 02-11-2019 at 05:29 PM. Reason: added 'gearbox' for ya.

02-11-2019, 05:26 PM	#191
wotnnc Old Enough To Know Better Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Boonville, North Carolina Posts: 166	They need oil in the transmission. On the 2 stroke Suzuki's I used to ride, the crank bearing on the clutch side was lubricated by the gear oil and the one on the flywheel side had an oil injection line going straight to it, but everything else in the engine was lubed by the oil in the gas. This is an exception to the rule because the great majority of 2 strokes get no lubrication except through the premix. Those old oil injection bikes were a bit different. They could be run on premix after opening up the case around the flywheel side crank bearing, if you tried it without doing that, the bearing wouldn't get enough oil. __________________ Silver 05 and Faster Blue 04 FZ1. Last edited by wotnnc; 02-11-2019 at 11:18 PM.

02-11-2019, 06:05 PM	#192
WileyLogHomes Need a Log Home? Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Roanoke VA Posts: 2,400	Motor top and bottom end are lubricated via the premix, transmission and clutch are lubricated with the gear oil. __________________ 07 FZ1 lots of goodies www.WileyLogHomes.com

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02-10-2019, 12:28 PM	#182
Dean Dinnetz Registered User Join Date: May 2005 Location: Watsonville, Ca. Posts: 9,333	I remember an old girl friend saying, and i quote, "I don't check oil, men check oil"! I then said, and when you don't check the oil, men will then take all the money out of your purse/bank account, to repair your blown up engine! She started checking her oil, after i showed her how to do it. Dean

02-11-2019, 06:21 AM	#183
OldBiker Registered User Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Chicago Illinois USA Posts: 1,503	It's not just women, I knew a guy who was asking everyone at a ski club meeting about how often they check their oil. I had a 88 Mustang 5.0 GT at the time and told him I check every other gas fill. Then I asked him, he never checked the oil in his Toyota Cressida and the engine blew. He had about 30,000 miles on it when the engine blew. His comment was that it was a Toyota and they don't need service. DUH!!

02-11-2019, 10:35 AM	#184
longeze Registered User Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 625	Another vote for Mobil 1 here. I ran a lap and a half at Elkhart Lake(4 mile track) with a broken oil pump drive belt in a dry sump system(no splash lubrication) to finish the race at the June Sprints. To my surprise, I finished without losing my position. Afterward, when I tore the engine down, there was no sign of overheating or excessive wear on any of the crank or cam bearings or journals. I was(& still am) astounded.

02-11-2019, 05:24 PM	#190
MichaelFZ1 Off the deep end Join Date: Jun 2017 Location: Georgia Piedmont Posts: 1,091	What glory said. There’s still oil in the transmission and for the clutch. It has a service life like anything else. Especially on a two stroke motorcycle, where feathering the clutch is mandatory.

02-11-2019, 09:16 PM	#193
longeze Registered User Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 625	With the idea of advancing the original question, I mentioned my experience with Mobil 1 at RA, specifically because of the type of stresses placed on the engine from running WOT for long periods of time in a 4 cycle high performance engine, running without proper lubrication. The heat and stresses imposed on the oil by the gearbox in a 2 cycle 85cc engine in a motoX event aren't the same, nor is the viscosity(80w90?), so I don't think it's a fair comparison or reasonable conclusion to say that any oil would provide similar protection under the circumstance I mentioned, just because oil technology has improved generally over the last several decades. It may well be that any synthetic you buy at Walmart, regardless of brand would perform equally well - as Glory points out. They're likely all refined by one of a few principal refineries, but I have no direct experience to represent that assumption to the OP as he requested. At the time, I considered the cost of running Mobil 1 to be cheap insurance. I had heard numerous stories similar to the one I posted, from others. Since most of the guys I raced with were also running it, I decided to follow suit and switch brands. I had always used Kendall oil previously. When I was racing 2 cycle engines, most everyone ran Castor "R" as their beverage of choice. While I'd never run it in my bikes crankcase, I'd like to - the stuff smells great! My point being that different applications have different demands that favor different brands. With ridiculously short engine life, high parts, labor & machining costs, and with the prospect of outright failure being unacceptable, I believe racing communities are pretty good at ferreting out best of breed as long as an oil company isn't a sponsor. To the OP's second revised question about excessive oil consumption when running Mobil 1 synthetic: I've experienced the same issues as yourself when running it - ie. My oil consumption goes up and my gearbox shifts smoother. I've gone back to running dino oil in my Gen1. I'm sure the protection isn't as good as Mobil 1 and I don't like the noticeable decrease in performance, but I hate adding oil all the time and the stuff is pricey. My bike will almost certainly outlive me no matter what I run and since I'm not racing, I've joined the ranks of ride more, worry less. PS: My guess is that the synthetic is getting past the valve guide seals which would account for the excessive oil consumption. For all I know, the stuff might be sticking to the cylinder walls so well that its getting burned off with every ignition event. If I cared more, I'd try running a heavier weight synthetic to see if the problem persisted. Good luck with your bike!

02-12-2019, 04:09 PM	#194
sloowpoke Registered User Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Graceville, FL Posts: 271	Well, The only real difference I have personally noticed between synthetic and good dino oil was... When I opened the motor up, the synthetic oil left less crud to clean out. I didn't see any difference in wear. This was when I was riding bikes that didn't use the engine oil in the tranny and I quit riding bikes that needed to have ring & valve jobs every 40,000 miles back before the turn of the century. I haven't actually opened up a motor that wasn't electric, in about 20 years now. If I have to take an engine apart now, it's just to turn it into smaller chunks that can be tossed into the trash.