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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 1 Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance

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Old 01-18-2018, 02:28 PM   #301
theunderfighter
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You turned the fuel petcock back on after replacing that line, right?
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:30 PM   #302
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You bet. As I noted, plenty of fuel in the float bowls.
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Old 01-18-2018, 02:43 PM   #303
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Choke off, give it a quick shot of starting fluid, then hit the button.
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Old 01-18-2018, 08:14 PM   #304
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Hay Ron I would have to go with what MichaelFZ1 says ... Firing order , sounds like your 180 off on the Ignition timing , you may have put the wires on right but you could be off 180 , so you can try switching the wires from the coils , simply switch both leads from one coil to the other , you should have plenty of fuel in the carbs to start with the tank off the bike
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:12 AM   #305
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The coil wires have the cylinder numbers marked on them if I remember correctly.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:12 AM   #306
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nevermind, saw that you checked fuel is on
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:24 AM   #307
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No sweat on the replies guys - appreciated!

I'll be digging into this over the weekend. Plug wires are marked and plugged in correctly. I'm going to go back and check the timing to see if I'm 180 out. I'd be flabbergasted if I were but I'm going to check just the same. Will double check cam lobe alignment at TDC as well and in conjunction with the timing marks to make sure everything lines up like it is supposed to. I may even recheck the valve timing even though I'd be equally surprised to find that is off.

More this wkd.

Ron
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:20 PM   #308
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Before pulling the bike back apart, swap the power wires to the coil. Im almost willing to bet that’s where the problem lies. This would effectivly act like 180 out timing.

Last edited by MichaelFZ1; 01-19-2018 at 12:36 PM.
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Old 01-19-2018, 12:25 PM   #309
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I plan to do that early but I may go ahead and take the side cover off and loosen the valve cover. This is very little disassembly. It also saves my gaskets in the short term. I do plan however to swap the coil wires and give it a go early in the process.
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Old 01-19-2018, 03:44 PM   #310
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Coils are lost spark, so I think that means they fire every 180 degs regardless.

I could be wrong, of course.
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:25 PM   #311
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What Lost spark means is , each coil when it fires sends a spark to both spark plugs that it is attached to , example when the coil for cylinders 1 and 4 fire and number 1 is on the compression stroke you get ignition to the fuel , cylinder number 4 has no fuel to burn so you have Lost spark . as a foot note you have to switch both leads on the coils to change the firing order because one lead is a power lead and the other is the trigger from the igniter box.
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Old 01-19-2018, 11:56 PM   #312
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Of course, my bad. Thanks for clearing that up.
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Old 01-20-2018, 12:08 AM   #313
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Every time I see this thread I think it's a gossip forum about moderators.

Every. Time.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:22 AM   #314
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I don't think the supply wire to the front mounted coil will reach the right mounted coil and vice versa. The leads are short and tight in the wiring harness. I don't think this is a possible issue assuming the coils were not removed. If the coils were removed and swapped along with their marked plug wires, then it is a possible issue. But I didn't see any mention of removing the coils and I'm not sure why you would need to remove them for this work.

As far as cam phasing goes, a quick check there would be to remove all of the spark plugs, get ~12" of vinyl or plastic tubing that will fit snug in the spark plug hole (can take smaller tubing and build up with masking tape to make a larger OD on the end or get slightly larger tubing and grind down the outside to make the OD smaller on the end). Remove the timing pickup cover on the right side of the engine, rotate the engine clockwise with a wrench while holding your finger over the tubing to see if air is blowing out or sucking in while watching the timing pick up wheel. Verify that air is blowing out of piston #1 when the timing wheel approaches the "T" or TDC #1 mark. This verifies cylinder #1 is at TDC on the compression stroke. Now move the hose to cylinder #2 (FZ1 firing order is 1-2-4-3) and while holding your finger over the end of the tube, rotate the crankshaft 180 degrees or 1/2 revolution which puts piston #2 at TDC on the compression stroke and verify that air is being blown out of the tube which verifies #2 is on the compression stroke. Now move to cylinder #4 and repeat what you did for cylinder #2 and rotate another 180 degrees which puts #4 at TDC on the compression stroke. Now move to cylinder #3 and repeat again while rotating another 180 degrees which puts #3 at TDC on the compression stroke. This verifies that your mechanical components are in phase with your ignition system.

Edit: If you have the valve cover off, rather than use the tubing, you can just watch the intake and exhaust cam lobes for that particular cylinder and verify that both the intake lobes and exhaust lobes are pointing up when that cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke.
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Old 01-20-2018, 08:29 AM   #315
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Alan,
This is the path I am on. I will be doing this with my compression gauge, rotating the engine by hand and checking compression against spark.

You are correct in discussing the coils, I didn't touch them, remove them etc... during the disassembly of the top of the engine.

MTF

Ron
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:02 AM   #316
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Sunday update:

So, to get myself and everyone else here oriented, here are pictures from current state.

-Picture one is of the timing disk lined up with the marks. Can see the piston rod extended in the TDC position through the crankcase.

-Picture two is of the cam lobes from the TDC position. Cam lobes are opposed and should represent the compression stroke of the engine. The position of the intake lobe is rotated clockwise more than normal from dialing the cam in.

Unless I'm missing something, I think I have this correct. The timing disk, pistons/crankshaft and cam lobes are all in the correct position. The only difference I see is the position of the cams, particularly the intake due to dialing these in by hand. Please take a good look and tell me your impressions/suggestions, etc...

Once confirmed on the position of these items as being correct, next step in troubleshooting is moving to the intake box and then the carbs.

Not sure how far I'll get with this today as I have several things going on. I did want to get at least a couple of pics up for the group.

Ron
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File Type: jpeg image2.jpeg (95.9 KB, 87 views)
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:04 AM   #317
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Ron, your intake cam lobe on cylinder #1 looks like it is rotated way too far off vertical. It has been a while since I looked at my cams, but I seem to recall the cam lobs pointing at approximately 10 and 2 on the clock when the cylinder was at TDC on the compression stroke. How many degrees did you alter the cam timing from stock? ~5 degrees or less? That represents ~1.4% of a full rotation (5/360x100) and you would have a hard time discerning that amount of change by looking at the lobe. Your intake lobe looks to be rotated ~20% of a full rotation beyond expected.
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:34 AM   #318
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Alan,
I was concerned about the intake cam. I set the intake cam degree at 105 and measured the thing a bunch of times.

I'm going to go ahead and take the valve cover back off, reinstall the degree wheel, set TDC and check this again just to be safe.

Ron
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:47 AM   #319
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I agree looks like the intake cam is retarded , the cam turns at 1/2 the speed as the crank so you doint get a lot of change from where you started at ( stock setting ) when changing the cam timing.
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:56 AM   #320
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I looked through my photos to see if I had anything showing the stock cam lobe position and didn't find anything. I searched for some threads with photos showing the position of the cam lobes and found these threads:

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...ight=cam+lobes

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...ight=cam+lobes

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...ight=cam+lobes

And here is a youtube video at ~5:00 minute mark showing a 2000 R1 (essentially the same as Gen 1 FZ1 with thin head gasket) cam lobe position with the cams set at the timing marks (dots on cams aligned with marks on caps).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYBj05knIx4
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