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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance > Gen 1 Exhausts, Carburetion & Performance

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Old 01-04-2018, 05:47 PM   #281
iluvmyfz1
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Go Ron Go!
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-'03 FZ1- "Xena"- Custom Orange/Red paint- FuzzyOne mirror mod- SW Motech QR racks- Givi E460 top- E21 side cases- SS brake lines - Scorpion slip-on- R6 shock- Throttlemeisters- Sargent seat- R1 shift arm- Custom sprocket cover- Cheap ass battery- Extended passenger pegs - Gauge of Eternal Coolness - Valtermoto Rearsets - HIDs -
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:28 PM   #282
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Progress tonight - finally! Shift cover gasket came in and have that and the shift arm back in. Pulled the cams again, made shim adjustments and just now plugging the new clearances into the spreadsheet. Getting close to calling it good on valve clearances. I'll pull the cams again tomorrow, swap several shims between cylinders with what I have on hand. At that point, I'll have 19 of 20 valves spot on Ivan's numbers. Will re-eval the last valve and see what I can find for shims locally. Hopefully I can find what I need and purchase it Friday so I can degree the cams in this weekend.

MTF...

Ron
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Last edited by rdcusmc; 01-05-2018 at 05:05 AM.
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Old 01-04-2018, 11:18 PM   #283
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Some Honda valve shims are the same 7.48mm diameter as the Yamaha FZ1 shims, but they make them in half increments compared to the Yamaha shims (0.025 mm increments vs. 0.05 mm increments) allowing you to get closer to your desired clearance.

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63792
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Old 01-06-2018, 05:58 PM   #284
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VALVE CLEARANCE COMPLETE

Well, it took long enough and I apologize for the delay BUT the valve clearances are set. Here is the final (which was NOT easy to get to).

I'm done for today. Next up: Degree the cams...

Best,
Ron
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5699.jpg (90.1 KB, 117 views)
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Valves-FINAL VALVE CLEARANCE @ 26,000 miles post mods.pdf (25.4 KB, 12 views)
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Last edited by rdcusmc; 01-06-2018 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 01-09-2018, 08:16 PM   #285
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Quick update: I'm nearly set for valve timing. I've got machinist's dial, etc... in place. All set up with the exception of one bolt which I am picking up tomorrow. If all goes well, I'll have the cam timing complete before the day ends Wednesday.

Procedure: My plan is to measure the cam timing with the factory cam sprockets first as a trial to insure I'm getting accurate measurements and doing the math correctly. I should be sitting at factory settings less 2 degrees if memory serves after the installation of the thin head gasket. Once I'm good on the procedure, I'll swap the slotted sprockets in and finish the dial in. I'm sure I could go ahead and install the new sprockets now and save the extra step but I'm going conservative for my own peace of mind.

More to follow...

Ron
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Old 01-12-2018, 05:43 PM   #286
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DEGREEING THE CAMS

Apologies for delays in getting a picture update posted. I'll share this with the group as a "what I think I've learned" piece as well as for scrutiny from anyone more experienced at this than I am.

As I understand it, to set the cams the most important piece is insuring you have Top Dead Center for the #1&4 pistons. To this end, I set my crank and pistons at TDC with the head removed because I was so manic I'd be off. I used the machinist's dial to set TDC. In addition to setting my degree wheel at zero and noting the factory timing mark for TDC, I also added two timing marks of my own for TDC on the stator as a failsafe and to make life easier turning the crank from the stator side. Pic below shows the new timing marks and setup.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5706.jpg (83.1 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5709.jpg (91.6 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5710.jpg (78.5 KB, 65 views)
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"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, ignition advancer, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod, Cometic thin head gasket.

Last edited by rdcusmc; 01-12-2018 at 06:22 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:04 PM   #287
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As for setting the cam timing, my understanding after digging around the web and having a few discussions with different folks, the procedure goes like this:

-Find TDC
-Set degree wheel and marker for 0 degrees (Pic in previous post)
-Place machinist's dial on valve bucket as squarely as possible. The bucket should not be pressed by the cam lobe. I also mounted mine with pressure on the dial and reset the dial wheel to zero. I did this so I could get readings as the bucket moved both up and down. I got my gauge from Harbor Freight and it works fine.
-Rotate the crank watch the gauge. When the cam lobe begins to press on the bucket, keep rotating until you get .004 measured on one side of the cam lobe.
-Check the degree wheel and record the number.
-Rotate the crank again and remeasure on the other side of the cam lobe when you get to .004 again. Record the reading on degree wheel.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5707.jpg (109.8 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5708.jpg (108.1 KB, 66 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5711.jpg (86.9 KB, 65 views)
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"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, ignition advancer, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod, Cometic thin head gasket.

Last edited by rdcusmc; 01-12-2018 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 01-12-2018, 06:19 PM   #288
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After setting up the dial on either intake or exhaust bucket, I rotated the crank a few times to make sure the dial zero'd consistently.

Once you have your dial readings, it is time for some math. If I have this correct:
-Take your largest reading and add 180
-Take that total and subtract the lower reading
-Take that number and divide by 2

So:
((LR + 180) - SM)/2 = cam degree

From my pics, you can see on the intake readings I have 85 and 46. Plugging these numbers in gives:
- 85+180=265
- 265-46=219
- 219/2=109.5

Ivan recommends optimum 108 degree setup for the intake. If my measurements and math are right, then I am currently still off by 1.5 degrees for the intake cam.

The exhaust cam is good to go according to Ivan's published number of 100 degree optimal, presuming my math and measurements are correct:
- 37+180=217
- 217-18=199
- 199/2=99.5

So anyway, to wrap up for the time being, I'm inviting scrutiny of what I've shared tonight. I think I'm out of room to adjust the intake sprocket any further so I'll probably have to remove the cam and rotate it a tooth so I can get the timing to 108 or just below.

More to follow,
Ron
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5712.jpg (97.6 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5714.jpg (97.8 KB, 65 views)
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Old 01-13-2018, 06:00 AM   #289
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The only thing that I would like to add here is that you should find "0" by using the "positive stop method"

This is because it's possible to have the piston at TDC for a few degrees of crank rotation.

A quick search on youtube give this... it not a bike, but the procedure is the same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWZa3G6zSr4


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Old 01-13-2018, 09:53 AM   #290
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If anyone found the explanation and example of cam timing procedure I published in post #17 of this thread unclear or confusing, please let me know the specifics of the ambiguity, so that I can edit it to make things easier for the next guy. My intent when I published that description, was to save people the hassle of having to search around on the web to find the procedure and to alleviate any confusion. Hopefully Rons pictures will help.

As to the need for a hard stop, everyone has their own way of doing things. A hard stop certainly makes things easier/faster if you haven't done this procedure before - to be sure, but if you used a dial indicator to find TDC and rotated the crank CW AND CCW to find "0deg", your results can be totally trusted. You do need to use a sufficiently large offset value - larger than the cumulative tolerances to be accounted for. I used 0.050" IIRC, but the actual value doesn't really matter much as long as you use the same value in both your measurements in each direction of rotation. In Rons example, he used 0.004" which from my perspective is a tad on the small side for the reasons I just stated. The idea is that you want the offset value to be larger than the expected "slop" (or hysteresis) present in your crank and rod bearings/bushings as well as piston to wall clearance(your piston can/will tilt slightly in the bore). By rotating the crank in both directions, the clearances and wear in the mechanical system are accounted for and an accurate value for TDC is obtained.

Last edited by longeze; 01-13-2018 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:07 PM   #291
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Piston Stop

Just for grins, if anyone is interested, you can make your own piston stop. I purchased two bolts (I couldn't find one bolt the length that I wanted) at Ace Hardware size M10 1.0 pitch fine thread. Using a little Permatex Steel Weld, I prepped and then epoxied the bolts together along with the shank of a hex bit on the end. Works a treat and cost me about $4 to make. I thought while I was "learning", I would use the piston stop method for finding TDC as a litmus test for what I'd seen using the machinist's dial.

I'll post more on the project, probably tomorrow.

Best,
Ron
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File Type: jpg IMG_5719.jpg (108.7 KB, 39 views)
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2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, ignition advancer, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod, Cometic thin head gasket.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:45 PM   #292
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I'm very interested in your findings. ...

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Old Yesterday, 11:16 AM   #293
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Well, it took long enough BUT the final cam numbers are in: 105.5 intake, 100.25 exhaust.
I decided to move to a lesser number than 108 on the intake to provide a small boost to low end and midrange where I spend nearly all of my time.

Regarding the piston stop, I looked to my eye like a half to maybe a degree difference between using the machinist's dial and the piston stop. In the end, for a variety of reasons given how I secured the dial for that reading, I thought the piston stop was more accurate so I adjusted the fraction needed to re-zero TDC.

So, the good news here is that tons of shared knowledge from Ivan, Marc (Longeze) and many others has led to getting the hard part done and should bear fruit on the dyno. HUGE thanks to all for your shared inputs, guidance and patience!!

I'm not done with the thread obviously but I'll begin final reassembly this afternoon and start looking forward to cranking her up.

MTF,

Ron
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2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, ignition advancer, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod, Cometic thin head gasket.
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