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Old 02-12-2020, 11:00 AM   #21
oldjeep
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Originally Posted by Tom Renda View Post
PHOOEY!! PHOOEY I SAY!!!!

Whole life policies are tax advantaged methods to build wealth. Sure, they should be a small percentage of your total portfolio. But they can be a real wealth builder when used with 401k, 509 college savings, 15 year mortgages, and other savings and investment techniques.

Just paid off $100K of my daughters' law school loans with a loan against a whole life policy I bought in 1987. Interest rate 3.2% - less than half of what she would have paid the blood sucking student loan bastiges she originally borrowed from.

And ask me about the value of my whole life policy in 2009 after the market crashed. It went UP!

I will sort of agree, although it is easier to just plan ahead and pay for the school as it comes rather than get loans and then pay them off.
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Old 02-12-2020, 11:25 AM   #22
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Cheap term while you’re working, say no way to whole life. Anything you might have paid in whole life premiums, invest in anything else instead.
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Old 02-12-2020, 02:48 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by isleoman View Post
https://www.aplaceformom.com/blog/20...sisted-living/

I'm starting a new company called aplaceforriders.com.

Keytickler's last post got me wondering about using LTC for Assisted Living. Found the link above in my search.

The comment section for that article is an interesting perspective.
I note that the most recent comments in that section are from four years ago. I suggest that you do some additional research, including possibly discussing LTC insurance pros and cons with an independent insurance agent. The landscape may have changed since then.

I am not in the insurance business.

My attitude about life insurance is that you need to think about what you need it for. Should you die, what expenses would you leave with your family to pay--mortgage, college tuition, funeral expenses, etc.? Buy the term insurance you need to cover these obligations. Once you are much older, own your home free and clear, no longer have college tuition to pay, etc. you may not need to have life insurance anymore if you have amassed some other savings and investments.

YMMV.

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Old 02-12-2020, 08:24 PM   #24
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I was given a $50K policy from work, otherwise nada. The way to go is have enough money that you don’t give a shit.
Exactly! As I told our good buddy Jake (Yamahaman444 - where you been my friend?), eventually you're gonna want to have FU money. It's a good feeling when one gets there!
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Old 02-13-2020, 06:44 AM   #25
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Our term policies are through State Farm, out of convenience, mostly. I have one year's salary, my wife has two year's salary in addition to the term policies. I got mine while I when I just turned 30, so it wasn't too expensive for $500k, my wife is a few years older and has some medical issues, so we pay about the same for her $300k in coverage, but it works out to about the same with our salary coverage. After a heart issue, skin cancer diagnosis and ongoing screenings (with ongoing removals) it's going to be quite an eye-opener when I need to renew around 50.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:34 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Tom Renda View Post
PHOOEY!! PHOOEY I SAY!!!!

Just paid off $100K of my daughters' law school loans with a loan against a whole life policy I bought in 1987. Interest rate 3.2% - less than half of what she would have paid the blood sucking student loan bastiges she originally borrowed from.
You are a much nicer parent than me - no way I am paying for my kid's law school. Paying for their college, they will graduate without debt bacause I saved hard starting literally on the days they were born in a 529. After that, they are all growed up and any further costs of education is on them, as is all of their other financial responsibilities. I am done, retired, over and out - the 529 was "their" money, my retirement money is mine. If they ask for money, I will remind them of the 6 figure dough shelled out for their educations and politely decline. No way I am allowing that dependency train to leave the station. They know it too, have talked to them about it.

I did start Roth IRAs for both of them, matching their W2 income. My more industrious daughter has about 22K in hers at age 19, my less industrious daughter has about 7K in hers at age 22. Funny thing is, more industrious daughter is more likely to raid her Roth to buy stupid stuff at the mall, while the older one will not. Their lives, their mistakes to make I suppose. That is the big risk of starting a Roth for your kids, once they are adults, they can pay the penalty and withdraw from the account. It has been a great opportunity to set them down and talk about investing. At first they were not interested, but as they have seen the money grow, they became interested. Funny how that works. Both are in simple low cost Index funds, which have rocked and rolled for the last few years.
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:45 AM   #27
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You are a much nicer parent than me - no way I am paying for my kid's law school. Paying for their college, they will graduate without debt bacause I saved hard starting literally on the days they were born in a 529. After that, they are all growed up and any further costs of education is on them, as is all of their other financial responsibilities. I am done, retired, over and out - the 529 was "their" money, my retirement money is mine. If they ask for money, I will remind them of the 6 figure dough shelled out for their educations and politely decline. No way I am allowing that dependency train to leave the station. They know it too, have talked to them about it.
So........ two weddings?
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Old 02-13-2020, 08:47 AM   #28
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So........ two weddings?
That is gonna be an interesting discussion. My usual generous and yet hard nosed approach would be to decide on a wedding budget and involve the girls on how they want to spend it, up to the point of just going to the courthouse and using the wedding budget as a down payment on their starter condo

I have a friend who threw a lavish wedding for his daughter, taking money out of his 401K and spending in the area of 40K. Another one of his daughters is a beer chemist for New Belgian Brewing doing God's work while the fancy wedding daughter is a broke struggling renter. It would have been so much better to do a simple wedding and gift her the money for all that stuff that came and went in one day. Funny thing is, the beer chemist daughter had a much simpler wedding. Dunno if there were any other financial "arrangements" made, but that is just her solid businesslike and less flashy personality. Really like that girl, she brews good beer and has her poop in a group for sure.

I could see my younger one going for a wedding with all the trimmings while the older one would clearly choose door #2 and see the judge on the cheap so she could get into a modest rent free ownership situation. They are very different girls and adults who are old enough to marry get to make adult decisions. Of course I will have to confer with Mrs. Duke and see what she says about all this, but she is frugal like my older daughter, which explains in part why I was attracted to her

It is remarkable how the role of parents has changed since I was a kid. I turned 18 and was mostly on my own. I did live at home, but worked construction for a year after HS to save money and paid for college myself, bought my own car. Graduated college, got a job and have been completely independent ever since, including paying for my modest wedding, buying my first house, etc. Stuff was cheaper back then, but it blows my mind how parents are expected to support their kids into their 30s as nobody did that back when I was young. Now it seems very common - in my insurance work I see adult "children" in their 40s on their parent's auto policies all the time. Gotta cut the cord at some point...
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:00 AM   #29
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Exactly! As I told our good buddy Jake (Yamahaman444 - where you been my friend?), eventually you're gonna want to have FU money. It's a good feeling when one gets there!

Yes it is! I went from dead broke having a car repossessed at 30 to not giving one shit about anything now.
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:23 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Duken4evr View Post
...my retirement money is mine...
So are you planning on spending every last dime, and not leaving them anything?
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Old 02-13-2020, 10:26 AM   #31
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Had a term policy with Banner that just hit ten years. Rate went up by nearly 3x, but at this stage of life and career - a few years from retirement, daughters up and (nearly) gone, no debt other than mortgage, and with (mumble) dollars in active assets working for me, I’m essentially self-insured.

Company pays 1x annual comp for life insurance, and that’s good enough until I’m done.



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Old 02-13-2020, 01:27 PM   #32
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You are a much nicer parent than me - no way I am paying for my kid's law school.
I didn't pay for the whole thing. And if I was hurting financially myself, I would have paid less. But I'm not.

Can't see my kid struggling to repay a quarter mil for something that cost me $6K in 1984. (While I struggle to jam more toys in the garage than I can possible use.)

It's just a personal thing.

(I do plan on pissing on the lawn statue of the Dean of Berkeley Law School. )
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Old 02-13-2020, 02:16 PM   #33
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FWIW, my dirt bike riding buddy graduated from Harvard Law and paid back his loans himself. Then again, that dude is super human - after graduating Harvard and on a lark, an "A" rider, he bought a random XR650 off Craigslist and finished 4th in the Ironman class in Vegas to Reno, 550 some odd miles of off road desert torture. He just closed down operations on an apartment REIT he and as few of his classmates started after graduation, at age 38 he said if he was cheap like me he could retire Alas, he is now working hard for a large Swiss firm, wheeling and dealing in apartments and commercial properties. The guy is 10x smarter than me, can ride better than me, is younger than me. I hate him!

I could be like my uncle - his kids were all moderate F ups and he left his entire 2M wad to his college. He did leave them his paid for lakeside house, but they could not afford the high MN taxes and the upkeep on it and they sold it and each kid probably got around 100K out of that, so they did not walk away empty handed. I sensed when I saw them at the funeral that they were pretty non plussed about it though.

Just me and people can do what they want, but leaving a wad of cash that barely moves the financial needle at huge endowment university is not something I would be interested in. So many better charities/avenues out there. Leaving all that dough to the college was quite a from the grave thumb in the eye by my Uncle if you ask me. They may be of the irritatingly liberal gimme free stuff moderate life F ups persuasion, but those adult children sure could have used that money in a trust type situation.

To be honest, I will hopefully not spend all my assets before I croak, but want to see the kids fend for themselves a bit before I "invest" in them, and I want to while I am alive. The tricky distinction to navigate with the kids is to "invest" and not "enable" and to keep the family dough out of idiot ex spousal hands if that ever becomes an issue via a family trust if I do help them with buying their houses. In the end, the plan is even if they are screw ups, my kids will get whats left. I will be dead by then and will no longer care
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Old 02-14-2020, 04:29 AM   #34
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Well, no offense, but my two girls do not need motivation. They are out to save the world (one's a teacher and the other a lawyer) and they have a good chance at doing exactly that.

I might leave some money to a few pet causes. (UVa nursing school; Larry Sabato's crystal ball.) But the major portion of my estate will go to my children. I didn't get their permission to bring then into this ****ed up world, so the least I can do is make it easier (financially) for them to negotiate it. I don't worry about their spouses. The younger one will take care of that situation (with violence, if need be -- I know her) so the men will stay in line -- or else!
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:07 AM   #35
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Sounds like a good plan Tom! Jury's still out on my kids. As usual, time will reveal all. I think the younger one's current plan is to marry well
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Wise man said - "Don't go bagger too soon".


Get your FI maps right here:

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Akra full exhaust mindless stationary rev out Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5UNYBqHd7M
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Old 02-14-2020, 08:14 AM   #36
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Well, no offense, but my two girls do not need motivation. They are out to save the world (one's a teacher and the other a lawyer) and they have a good chance at doing exactly that.

I might leave some money to a few pet causes. (UVa nursing school; Larry Sabato's crystal ball.) But the major portion of my estate will go to my children. I didn't get their permission to bring then into this ****ed up world, so the least I can do is make it easier (financially) for them to negotiate it. I don't worry about their spouses. The younger one will take care of that situation (with violence, if need be -- I know her) so the men will stay in line -- or else!
Well said. I see absolutely nothing wrong with leaving my kids enough $ that it'll be there when they need it. Perhaps they'll use it for their kids college tuition, a nice down payment on a house, etc. A parent's job doesn't stop just because they hit a certain age or milestone in life. Some of you guys had shitty upbringings with shitty parents, and left home very early and carved out your own place. That's great. However, that's not the norm. Most good parents want to help their kids and be able to provide for them. Being a parent is a lifelong (and beyond) responsibility. I was fortunate to have been left some $ from my parents that has really come in handy at times.
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Old 02-14-2020, 10:32 AM   #37
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I know my parents are doing their best to leave me and my brother something. I aim to try to do the same for my kid. But my wife is a good bit younger than me with some longevity on her mom's side of her family, so it may be a while before she sees any of it.

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