make a donation to the fz1oa
fz1oa chat
fz1oa picture uploader
maintain your own photo albums
locate fz1oa members
search the entire board
click here for fz1oa web site home page
register a new account, it's free!
email the fz1oa webmasters
read the fz1oa guidelines
read the fz1oa policy
open pat's fz1 site in a new window
open iowaz fz1 site in a new window
technical tips

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Service & Maintenance > Gen 1 Service & Maintenance

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-22-2019, 09:25 PM   #21
grommet
kinetic mentality
 
grommet's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: hangin' with Toto
Posts: 12,957
__________________
Patient zero.


Partly stabilized, partly curious.


Be your own man; don't be an owned man.

Some people would rather be dead than wrong.
grommet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-23-2019, 11:39 AM   #22
iluvmyfz1
Just enjoy the machine....
 
iluvmyfz1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Buford, GA
Posts: 5,308
Great write-up. Thanks, good luck, and may The Force be with you.
__________________
-'03 FZ1- "Xena"- Custom Orange/Red paint- FuzzyOne mirror mod- SW Motech QR racks- Givi E460 top- E21 side cases- SS brake lines - Scorpion slip-on- R6 shock- Throttlemeisters- Sargent seat- R1 shift arm- Custom sprocket cover- Cheap ass battery- Extended passenger pegs - Gauge of Eternal Coolness - Valtermoto Rearsets - LEDs -
iluvmyfz1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2019, 10:46 AM   #23
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,105
Start here.

I did custom Cometic thinner gasket, hand timed cams, some head work, etc... Had it dyno'd before and after.

Thread here is "Facts About Mods as I know them". My piece starts around page 10 and includes lots of pics.

Best,
Ron

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...s+mods&page=11
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod.
rdcusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 05:25 AM   #24
4Rmotorsports
Registered User
 
4Rmotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brunswick, ohio
Posts: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdcusmc View Post
Start here.

I did custom Cometic thinner gasket, hand timed cams, some head work, etc... Had it dyno'd before and after.

Thread here is "Facts About Mods as I know them". My piece starts around page 10 and includes lots of pics.

Best,
Ron

http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/forum/sho...s+mods&page=11
Thanks Ron. I have read your build and I am basically looking to duplicate your mods and hoping for the same results.
__________________
dale walker full exhaust and stage 2 jet kit, 3 degree timing advance, ais eliminator, traxxion dynamics ak-20 cartridge, penske rear shock, braking wave rotors, stainless steel brake lines, rizoma adjustable rearsets, piazzo levers
4Rmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-25-2019, 05:41 AM   #25
4Rmotorsports
Registered User
 
4Rmotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brunswick, ohio
Posts: 34
Some progress from the weekend.


Found significant wear on the shift fork and dogs on second gear as expected. Simply loading the gears with my hands causes them to begin to force themselves apart.


Cylinder head full of carbon. Going to have to address jetting. Going to tackle rebuilding this next.



I also unfortunately found the previous owner JB welded the case in front of the drive sprocket. It looks like the chain whipped off at one point and cracked the case. It is not a hole, and not very big. It has been hidden behind the cover and under years of chain lube. It never caused an issue so I am going to do my best to put it out of my mind.
__________________
dale walker full exhaust and stage 2 jet kit, 3 degree timing advance, ais eliminator, traxxion dynamics ak-20 cartridge, penske rear shock, braking wave rotors, stainless steel brake lines, rizoma adjustable rearsets, piazzo levers
4Rmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2019, 06:57 AM   #26
WDD
Registered User
 
WDD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 9,057
Looks like a nice winter project.

When the engine get's all buttoned up, I'd

1) Pull the forks, replace the fork fluid and bushings.
2) If using stock springs, put in new ones for your weight.
3) Lube the swing arm
4) Replace the coolant
5) Replace the brake fluid
6) Replace the O rings in the carbs
7) Put in a jet kit if you haven't. I think Ivan still makes them
8) Order your new tires now so you have them. 7+ year old tires need replaced
9) Chain? Take a close look. The seals in the links might have deteriorated from sitting. Go ahead and put on a new chain and sprockets.
__________________
Not sure what I should put down for my signature.....
WDD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2019, 04:40 PM   #27
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,105
Just got your message about the Cometic gasket. I'm trying to run down the number.

Ron
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod.
rdcusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2019, 04:41 PM   #28
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,105
This is what I used:
"For the head gasket, I had one custom made for me to my spec by Cometic. Their phone number is: 800-752-9850 or 440-354-0777.
My Cometic gasket part# is: H0846SP5010S. It's 0.010" X 74mm.
The Yamaha R1 and FZ1 gaskets are all 75mm bore diameter. I wanted to match my gasket to the actual FZ1 bore size of 74mm to reclaim some lost squish area.
Heres the Cometic part# for a 0.010" X 75mm gasket: H0846010S.
The Cometic. Part# for the R1 0.018" X 75mm race gasket: H0846018S
Just so you know, Ivan recommends the standard R1 race gasket. That's why there's chocolate and vanilla I guess.
I calculated my gasket to raise static compression ratio from 11.4:1 to 12.56:1
0.654cc =vol difference between a 74mm & 75mm gasket assuming a loss of .022" thickness(from 0.032" to 0.010") as well. It's free VE so worth doing I think."
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod.
rdcusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2019, 11:35 PM   #29
longeze
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 877
You forgot to put my name on MY work - again... or on MY thread for that matter. I love how your friends have decided to persistently refer to it as "Rons thread". I notice you never corrected them... despite it having over 20,000 views before you even started your own build.

I spent far more time documenting my work for the benefit of people such as yourself, than it took me to actually do the build, so you'll understand if I object to the efforts to dismiss my work entirely, while you and others continue to benefit from it. Whether I liked someone or not, I would never appropriate someone elses efforts as my own or stand idly by as I was given the credit by others.

FWIW, I didn't just arbitrarily decide to have a 0.010" x 74mm gasket made, I had to spend time to actually do the math to figure out what the change in volume, CR and cam timing would be. That actually takes some knowledge, time and effort... "What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly" - T. Paine
longeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2019, 05:24 AM   #30
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,105
Good grief.

ALCON - Please accept my apologies for not being more clear in attributing Longeze’s work. Certainly he provided lots of discussion and documentation of many technical aspects of his build and I benefited from that.

That said:

1. I said this is what I used and put your info in quotes. For anyone who has read the entire thread would know where I am repeating your information. I was working from my mobile and was in a hurry so forgive me for not taking more time to avoid any confusion.

2. I know I have given credit to you many times, just as I have Ivan and others. I have been very consistent to say I didn’t do anything special except to pull mods from a lot of people into one build. I don’t hear anyone else bitching about what credit they are not getting.

3. As for my “friends”, I think that is an insult to the board. I’m part of this community, no more or less than anyone else. I’ve tried to be a good friend to all and general good guy on the board. My build is just that, my build. I documented it just the same as you documented yours. How other people treat that is something I have zero control over.

I am happy to continue to be friendly with you here or anywhere else. But I gotta say, this “credit sensitivity” is beyond me, particularly on this board. EVERYONE shares EVERYTHING here. They do so freely, happy they might be helping someone else and getting joy from it. I am thrilled ANYONE would think what I had to say in a string would matter or help them or would promote the community or the FZ platform. I’ve never sought to take credit for ANYTHING here and never will. I just wanna enjoy tinkering with my bike and helping others enjoy our beloved FZ.

Merry Christmas!
Ron
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod.
rdcusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2019, 12:28 AM   #31
longeze
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 877
"2. I know I have given credit to you many times, just as I have Ivan and others... I don’t hear anyone else bitching about what credit they are not getting. "

I don't see many people handing out commercial IP for free either. I blame myself for failing to realize when I gave you my gasket part# in my thread that it would then be open season on it. That was dumb on my part. I should have given you the information in a PM & made it clear that I held it proprietary - my bad. I just wanted to help YOU in particular realize the benefit from it & didn't think anyone would pay much attention to the numbers or specs. I thought I had removed the part# shortly thereafter, as it was slated for commercialization here & within the R1 community.

As to "credit", as a matter of routine peoples threads here are referrred to by the original authors when instructional and relating to technical matters eg: "Ravenriders thread", "Pats thread", "Aries thread", "Rons thread" etc. It's just conspicuous by ommission that my username is never linked to my thread despite it being repeatedly referenced. It's always "the facts thread", "the mods thread", Rons thread etc.

"3. As for my “friends”, I think that is an insult to the board. I’m part of this community, no more or less than anyone else... How other people treat that is something I have zero control over."

Now I've insulted the board? - Nice...lol. "Insult"... nahhh - I don't.

"no more no less" Give yourself some credit. You're a longtime and highly regarded member here, which is obvious from the way that people interact with you. There are some people who reference and interact with you more frequently than others, so they appear to me as your friends - particularly. I've been on the board long enough that the patterns of interaction between people become apparent. It's not exactly an insult to you or the board to reference them as your friends.

" I just wanna enjoy tinkering with my bike and helping others enjoy our beloved FZ."

I hear ya.. Not trying to create "drama", but I've tried the subtle approach a couple times already with you & others, but it's the 3rd go around with this in nearly as many months, so I thought it time to be more direct.

" I gotta say, this “credit sensitivity” is beyond me, particularly on this board. EVERYONE shares EVERYTHING here... "

Ron, To be clear, I certainly bear you no ill will. I've made my living largely off my IP, so yeah I'm probably a little more touchy about it than most. It's coincidence, but this came up on the one other forum I occasionally contribute to, just a week or so ago. As you'll see, cultures vary. Here's an excerpt:

11-28-2019, 11:22 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nalleh View Post
More mods, LOL.

Got some inner tubing from a wheelbarrow to put under my TR Sleds

Air suspension, LOL.

Not much pressure should be needed, a couple psi at most i guess, so a little handpump is more than enough.

A little hodge-podge with some air hoses, and tire valves later and voila! I am using the earlier block off boards i used on my VNF’s when i used 2 JBL’s to have between the air bladders and sleds.

And mounted it looks like this, with this coming out to one side. So before watching a movie, just pump it up a little and it clears the normal iso’s, and you have air suspension. Of course fully adjustable After movie, just let out the air, and it’s back to normal

A little video. I am just moving it with one hand on top of the VNF. Pretty "floaty"

I have to thank @trhought for this idea


Nalleh....Awesome setup! You went one step further than me with the on-the-fly adjustment capability. It definitely brings more TR than the traditional 30-40 durometer isos based on my testing. Looking forward to hearing your impressions... The credit for this idea goes to @Longeze . He came up with the original idea of using inner tubes.
----------------------------------------

FWIW, The guy who replied with the correction is also an engineer, so he "gets it".

Last edited by longeze; 12-03-2019 at 12:47 AM.
longeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2019, 06:20 AM   #32
4Rmotorsports
Registered User
 
4Rmotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brunswick, ohio
Posts: 34
Ahem.....

Not much progress over the holiday week. Drained and cleaned my parts washer, started getting some parts in. I have a few side jobs the next couple weekends so it may be slow moving for a while.

Longeze: do you have a link to your build? I know I am late to the party but I am trying to read as much as I can and have tried sorting through posts to gather what suits my needs best. It seems you have redacted most of the posts in your thread that picks up post build?
Again, it is hard to discern where to look or follow info/references while trying to fish through years of information. I am in no way educated enough on the finer points of building horsepower. That being said, I appreciate all the help and input thus far as my best opportunity to achieve the end result I desire is to stand on the information and effort others much more knowledgeable than myself have put forth and are willing to share. Thanks to all who have contributed to this point and in the future.
__________________
dale walker full exhaust and stage 2 jet kit, 3 degree timing advance, ais eliminator, traxxion dynamics ak-20 cartridge, penske rear shock, braking wave rotors, stainless steel brake lines, rizoma adjustable rearsets, piazzo levers

Last edited by 4Rmotorsports; 12-03-2019 at 06:50 AM. Reason: Clarity
4Rmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 01:52 AM   #33
longeze
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 877
4R, I put some stuff back on the 1st page for you. Sorry, I did redact the posts wholesale to preserve my patent rights related to the custom tunable exhaust I was working on.

If you're improving breathing anyway with a jet kit & exhaust, porting is where much of the gain is to be found. You want to match your port work to your cam timing best you can. If you have time and interest, Read as much as you can online by David Vizard (& others) about porting 5 valve heads, or buy one of his books. He's published some excellent articles online that I found invaluable, since I hadn't worked with that valve configuration before.

Failing that, just clean up the castings, remove as little material as possible to match the ports, make the volume of the runners equal and call it good. DON"T make the intakes too smoothe, it's a waste of time & does more harm than good.

When you're done, get your bike on a dyno and tune your fueling to realize the full benefits of your work(or put a wideband on your bike like I did, so you can tune it for "real world" riding conditions).

There's also a monster thread on the R1 site about building hp & torque with these engines. I can't recall his name ATM. If you can be patient, I'll check my notes & if I find anything I think you might find useful, I'll post back.

Ride safe.
longeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2019, 07:02 PM   #34
4Rmotorsports
Registered User
 
4Rmotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brunswick, ohio
Posts: 34
Longeze: thank you for the direction. I Think I found the thread you were referring to?

https://www.r1-forum.com/threads/hea...roject.182384/
__________________
dale walker full exhaust and stage 2 jet kit, 3 degree timing advance, ais eliminator, traxxion dynamics ak-20 cartridge, penske rear shock, braking wave rotors, stainless steel brake lines, rizoma adjustable rearsets, piazzo levers
4Rmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 12:52 AM   #35
longeze
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 877
Happy to help. Spoiler alert: I stayed with that R1 thread to the bitter end hoping to read definitive results about his head work... Nothing conclusive or definitive ever published as to where he finally landed with his cam timing #'s or his epoxy head work. Still, his #'s combined with those of several others who had been down this road allowed me to make a reasonable guess as to where the likely "sweet spot" was for best bottom end torque. I'm happy with where I landed. YMMV
longeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 01:04 AM   #36
Quisp
Orlando , FL
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 144
Read Gordon Jennings Hop up of an SR500 if you want a education on porting and how non intuitive it is . Cutting and tapering valve guides did nothing . 80% of gains are in the valve bowl and seat edge area.
Quisp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 06:53 PM   #37
4Rmotorsports
Registered User
 
4Rmotorsports's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Brunswick, ohio
Posts: 34
I was able to make a little bit of progress today between work and reading....lots of reading....


Impromptu valve spring compressor


Head disassembled


Check out the poor casting here....not sure what I can do with this area.

Also, am I able to media blast the valves to clean the carbon from them? This is what I have done in the past but those engines were a bit different.
__________________
dale walker full exhaust and stage 2 jet kit, 3 degree timing advance, ais eliminator, traxxion dynamics ak-20 cartridge, penske rear shock, braking wave rotors, stainless steel brake lines, rizoma adjustable rearsets, piazzo levers
4Rmotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2019, 08:29 PM   #38
Wizbyu
Wizbyu
 
Wizbyu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Visalia CA
Posts: 157
4R how deep are your pockets ........ If you really want to rock your FZ1 world and have the money, send your crank in to APE and have them lighten, balance, knife edge, and polish it, and as for your head and whatever pistons you use, polish the combustion chamber and the tops of the pistons to a mirror finish, the lighter crank will give you a faster revving motor and polishing gives you free HP
__________________
The Measure of Who we are is what we do with what we Have
Wizbyu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 03:18 PM   #39
rdcusmc
Registered User
 
rdcusmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Rmotorsports View Post
I was able to make a little bit of progress today between work and reading....lots of reading....


Impromptu valve spring compressor


Head disassembled


Check out the poor casting here....not sure what I can do with this area.

Also, am I able to media blast the valves to clean the carbon from them? This is what I have done in the past but those engines were a bit different.

One easy way to clean the valves. If you have a drill press, lock the valve in the press and use an emory cloth or similar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b03pntWCDKE

Best,
Ron
__________________
"The Few. The Proud. The Marines!"

2003 Blue FZ1 - Ivan's MB Jet kit, Akrapovic, GOEC w/remote and GPS, 07 R1 fork conversion w/6 pot brakes, R1 master cylinder, R1 rear wheel w/R6 caliper, Penske shock, Dirt Road seat, AIS removed, HID and LED lights, full Givi luggage, Galfer lines, chain oiler, Rizoma bar, cat-eye turn signals above headlights, grip heaters, factory lower fairings, air box mod w/high flow filter, Cometic thin head gasket, FazerPhil large gas tank mod.
rdcusmc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2019, 09:49 PM   #40
longeze
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 877
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quisp View Post
...80% of gains are in the valve bowl and seat edge area.
AND
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizbyu View Post
4R ...polish the combustion chamber and the tops of the pistons to a mirror finish, the lighter crank will give you a faster revving motor and polishing gives you free HP
X2 This advice cuts to the chase and should save you gobs of wasted time. Not sure I think the crank work is worth the bucks though, unless you're really serious about putting your bike on the track and even then... There are better platforms to start with.

Taking weight out of the crank cheeks etc. makes for a faster revving bike it's true, but also might compromise the nice steady tractable character of the engine for use on the street and a little less stored energy for when you're starting out. It is really tempting to remove some of that dead weight though... YMMV

While on that topic, there's another few %hp in a 4+ angle valve job.
longeze is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > Service & Maintenance > Gen 1 Service & Maintenance


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:49 PM.


Questions? Comments?
Click on name below to contact via PM
Rabeet (Admin) Desmo (Admin)

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Website and Message Board Contents Copyright 2001-2007 FZ1OA
The marks YAMAHA® and FZ1® are used under license from Yamaha Motor Corporation, U.S.A.
The information on this web site is NOT approved or endorsed by Yamaha Motor Corporation in any way.
Page generated in 0.09134 seconds with 12 queries