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Go Back   FZ1OA Message Board > FZ1 & Fazer Owners Association > FZ1 Problems & Issues > Gen 1 Problems & Issues

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Old 10-29-2018, 04:26 PM   #1
Fz85282
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New Batt or Fuse?

Seeking your opinion.

2003 Bumble Bee FZ1 with 17K mi. Completely babied, lives in climate stable California, always garaged, ridden at least once a month for over an hour, frequently connected to a motorcycle 1.5 amp Pep Boys Schumacher battery tender. Batt is at least 3 years old if not more. Turned on the ignition key yesterday. Headlights came on at normal intensity. Moved the kill switch from the off position to on. Thumbed the starter and everything shut down, the headlights turned off and the bike became unresponsive. Put it on the charger overnight. This morning charger light was green. Turned the ignition key on. The kill switch was left on from last night. Headlights would not illuminate, engine wouldn't turn. Removed starter solenoid. Checked both fuses. All good. Let bike sit for another 5 hours after removal of charger. Checked Batt voltage. Meter read 10.3V. Strange.
At that voltage would imagine dim headlights? Or maybe the cel just died. Worried that it may be a short or fuse? Not sure? Didn't have time to visit bike shop due to work. That's the next step so as to check out their battery tester. Called shop, they recommend a new $189 Shorai Lithium Batt with a required $89 Shorai Batt dedicated charger with 6 year warranty (from Cycle Gear) Shorai Batt website says that min volts to charge batt are a required 13.1 from the FZ1 at idle. Not sure if our sweeties pump out that much.
Do you have any thoughts on all of my mumbo jumbo? Thanks to all who make the effort.
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Old 10-29-2018, 04:44 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Fz85282 View Post
...Let bike sit for another 5 hours after removal of charger. Checked Batt voltage. Meter read 10.3V. Strange.
At that voltage would imagine dim headlights? Or maybe the cel just died...
One dead cell will usually still read above 12 Volts with no load. You probably have more than one dead cell. Try measuring the voltage with the ignition switch on. The headlights would still be fairly bright (but yellowish) if the battery is actually supplying 10.3 Volts under load.
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Old 10-29-2018, 04:55 PM   #3
Fz85282
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Originally Posted by sloowpoke View Post
One dead cell will usually still read above 12 Volts with no load. You probably have more than one dead cell. Try measuring the voltage with the ignition switch on. The headlights would still be fairly bright (but yellowish) if the battery is actually supplying 10.3 Volts under load.
Interesting suggestion. Volt meter check with ignition off 10-11V. Once I turn the ignition (key) on, Volts drop to 0.09. I guess the Batt must have suffered a sudden total death?
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Old 10-29-2018, 04:58 PM   #4
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Still not sure about a new Lithium Batt though. They may only be good for newer bikes? My FZ has 15 year old technology. Money is not an issue for a new batt but maybe this charging system can only handle the older Lead Acid types?
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Old 10-29-2018, 07:35 PM   #5
firefly
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The battery is dead for sure, have you ever done the white connector charging fix? this is usually the cause of weak charging that kills the battery.
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Old 10-30-2018, 02:42 AM   #6
ctfz1
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Old school.

Check the charging connector. Check your Pepboys charger if you can. At leat the volt gage.
17,000 miles in California climate "sitting" might be biggest problem
fwiw check battery cables connection ends for corrosion. Check just inside the cable insulation for corrosion.
Amazon can get you a cheap battery. I've been running a Chrome brand YT14B-BS for almost a year $42.75 shipped.

I would use this one or similar until I was sure bike was charging properly. Possibly switch to LED headlight and taillight bulbs.

Check Regulator/Rectifier connections too. And any aftermarket add ons.
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Old 10-30-2018, 03:09 PM   #7
Fz85282
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Thanks to all for replies. Bought new Batt today at Cycle Gear. Poured in the acid. Batt is on the charger. Will install tomorrow and see how things go. Reviewed the white connector instruction on the site here. That’ll be the next step if continued headaches. May just be an old batt. Bought the bike off of a colector 3-4 years ago with 13 K.
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Old 10-30-2018, 06:22 PM   #8
sloowpoke
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Originally Posted by Fz85282 View Post
Interesting suggestion. Volt meter check with ignition off 10-11V. Once I turn the ignition (key) on, Volts drop to 0.09. I guess the Batt must have suffered a sudden total death?
It happens... You may have had one weak cell and added a cracked buss bar to complete the "sudden death" failure.

Since my formal training in electrochemistry predates even the addition of Calcium to the lead, to create the "Low Maintenance" batteries of the 1980's, I can't provide any usefull information on Lithium batteries.
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Old 10-30-2018, 07:08 PM   #9
wotnnc
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I bought a 04 FZ1 with a lithium battery of unknown age. All I know is that it in no way spins a FZ1 like the three year old Yusa AGM in my 05.
Yes, I tried the Yusa in the 04 and the lithium in the 05 with the same result.
The LED's indicate it's fully charged when I press the button, but it just seems like the cranking amps are not there like with the AGM battery. This is the only one I've ever been around so I can't speak for the rest of them, but no way would I go off on a trip somewhere using this battery.
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Old 10-30-2018, 08:08 PM   #10
firefly
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Originally Posted by Fz85282 View Post
Thanks to all for replies. Bought new Batt today at Cycle Gear. Poured in the acid. Batt is on the charger. Will install tomorrow and see how things go. Reviewed the white connector instruction on the site here. That’ll be the next step if continued headaches. May just be an old batt. Bought the bike off of a colector 3-4 years ago with 13 K.
DO the white connector now, you don't want to destroy your new battery having it poorly charged by the bike, it takes a while until the battery becomes so weak prematurely, another good idea to have an onboard voltmeter, they are cheap on ebay.
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Old 10-31-2018, 04:50 AM   #11
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Riding once a month is not going to keep a regular lead-acid battery charged sufficiently to guarantee no damage. A good tender (can't speak to that one) left on there at all times (not just now and then) while it's parked will. Lead acid batteries simply don't hold charge, and once the charge starts to drop, chemical processes happen that are not reversible. They are great for applications where they are kept charged and used for high loads, they are not meant for long-term charge storage. That's why there are deep-cycle variants.

A fully charged Lithium battery left for a couple of years without charging will not suffer any damage. The nature of their chemistry is such that they don't suffer from permanent damaging processes until they get down to about 50% stored charge, which can take years. They also work just fine on both old and new bikes.
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Old 10-31-2018, 01:56 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by sloowpoke View Post
It happens... You may have had one weak cell and added a cracked buss bar to complete the "sudden death" failure.

Since my formal training in electrochemistry predates even the addition of Calcium to the lead, to create the "Low Maintenance" batteries of the 1980's, I can't provide any usefull information on Lithium batteries.
Bench test at Cycle Gear indicated "dead cel." As stated by the sales person. At that time, the volts were at 8V. And that was 10 hrs after the supposed full charge. New batt is installed and everything is back to normal. Life is good.
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:07 PM   #13
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DO the white connector now, you don't want to destroy your new battery having it poorly charged by the bike, it takes a while until the battery becomes so weak prematurely, another good idea to have an onboard voltmeter, they are cheap on ebay.
Hello Firefly. Thank you for your recommendation. I'll review the procedure thoroughly. I believe it's on this site. And will take your advice seriously. I've never had charging issues with my FZ1s. In all the time I've owned them, I've only had to change batteries twice. Counting this time. I own three FZ1s. A silver '05 with 14K miles, an '03 Bumble Bee with 1400 miles (which is pickled in my Arizona house) and the '03 were discussing here with 17K miles. The latter had a battery that was nearly 6 years old. I think the darned thing just got old and gave up. However, things do happen and that's the reason why folks are doing the white connector mod. So I take your comments seriously. Thank you. Just to confirm, this is the link/procedure, right?
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/eskortsde...lacement.shtml
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:10 PM   #14
Fz85282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyW View Post
Riding once a month is not going to keep a regular lead-acid battery charged sufficiently to guarantee no damage. A good tender (can't speak to that one) left on there at all times (not just now and then) while it's parked will. Lead acid batteries simply don't hold charge, and once the charge starts to drop, chemical processes happen that are not reversible. They are great for applications where they are kept charged and used for high loads, they are not meant for long-term charge storage. That's why there are deep-cycle variants.

A fully charged Lithium battery left for a couple of years without charging will not suffer any damage. The nature of their chemistry is such that they don't suffer from permanent damaging processes until they get down to about 50% stored charge, which can take years. They also work just fine on both old and new bikes.
Hello Andy. I honestly haven't had too much trouble with my bikes sitting as much as they do. About twice a month I put them on the charger overnight and things seem to work ok. At least for 3-5 years. Which seems like the amount of time, on average, that I'm getting out of the batteries. And one thing you said is certainly right. I don't ride enough.
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Old 10-31-2018, 02:12 PM   #15
Fz85282
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Originally Posted by wotnnc View Post
I bought a 04 FZ1 with a lithium battery of unknown age. All I know is that it in no way spins a FZ1 like the three year old Yusa AGM in my 05.
Yes, I tried the Yusa in the 04 and the lithium in the 05 with the same result.
The LED's indicate it's fully charged when I press the button, but it just seems like the cranking amps are not there like with the AGM battery. This is the only one I've ever been around so I can't speak for the rest of them, but no way would I go off on a trip somewhere using this battery.
Thank you for the comment on your experience. For now staying old school too. No lithium.
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Old 10-31-2018, 06:59 PM   #16
firefly
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Originally Posted by Fz85282 View Post
Hello Firefly. Thank you for your recommendation. I'll review the procedure thoroughly. I believe it's on this site. And will take your advice seriously. I've never had charging issues with my FZ1s. In all the time I've owned them, I've only had to change batteries twice. Counting this time. I own three FZ1s. A silver '05 with 14K miles, an '03 Bumble Bee with 1400 miles (which is pickled in my Arizona house) and the '03 were discussing here with 17K miles. The latter had a battery that was nearly 6 years old. I think the darned thing just got old and gave up. However, things do happen and that's the reason why folks are doing the white connector mod. So I take your comments seriously. Thank you. Just to confirm, this is the link/procedure, right?
http://www.yamahafz1oa.com/eskortsde...lacement.shtml
First, you really don't know if you had a charging problem, it is a very sneaky problem because the connectors look good and not corroded as I experienced, the above mod uses different connectors but I found it much easier to cut the stock connector and use posilock connectors like these.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pack-BLU...r/261081569265

Great cheap no maintenance battery

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AGM-BATTERY...72.m2749.l2649
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:45 PM   #17
Fz85282
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Originally Posted by firefly View Post
First, you really don't know if you had a charging problem, it is a very sneaky problem because the connectors look good and not corroded as I experienced, the above mod uses different connectors but I found it much easier to cut the stock connector and use posilock connectors like these.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/10-Pack-BLU...r/261081569265

Great cheap no maintenance battery

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AGM-BATTERY...72.m2749.l2649
Thank you!!!
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Old 11-03-2018, 05:11 AM   #18
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Seeking your opinion.

, frequently connected to a motorcycle 1.5 amp Pep Boys Schumacher battery tender.

Get a smart charger, like a Battery Tender Jr., and connect to the battery 100% of the time when you're not riding.

Cycling a battery through sitting - and dropping voltage - and then recharging multiple times is very damaging to a lead acid battery.

A smart charger will actively manage the charging in a way that keeps the battery healthy for years.
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