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Old 01-22-2018, 01:21 PM   #41
Alley Oop
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Having experience in pharmacy, I'm sure that a lot of the problem is patients not taking drugs as directed and mixing drugs that have unknown interactions. Some is just self-medication for depression and so on.

Alcohol is actually a powerful drug, and you can even find directions in traditional pharmacy reference books on the dosage to use for anesthesia.

There are several less powerful drugs that require a prescription and strict dosage directions. At some point I realized it was odd that we sell booze with absolutely no directions at all.
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Last edited by Alley Oop; 01-22-2018 at 02:03 PM. Reason: changed "absolutely not directions to "no directions" for easier reading.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:22 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Renda View Post
DUDE!!!!

Pharma companies are PIMPS.

Docs are working gals.

Ask me how I know.
Accurate.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:30 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Alley Oop View Post
I know we have a tragic epidemic of opioid deaths in the U.S. But when I'm in pain--either sciatica, back spasm, or piercing sinus headache, I want to kill it now; and none of the typical NSAIDS will touch it. So I told my doc that I like to keep opioids around the house, and he gave them to me. They last a long time, as I use them only on the occasion when I really need something that works.

I guess I'm lucky that I don't have that particular addiction gene. And I don't have the answer to the crisis. But it would be terrible for people in pain to lose access to an effective drug that relieves suffering.
When I was still riding dirt bikes I asked my doctor for 5 pain pills for when I got hurt and he gave them to me. I had them in my bag when I crashed while riding in the dunes and broke 3 ribs and separated my shoulder. I was in shock and I was able to ride back to the truck. I was very glad that I had those pills in my bag because it took 30 minutes to get to the hospital. I still have a few pills left from my last surgery but I haven't taken any for a couple of years.
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:01 PM   #44
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When I was still riding dirt bikes I asked my doctor for 5 pain pills for when I got hurt and he gave them to me. I had them in my bag when I crashed while riding in the dunes and broke 3 ribs and separated my shoulder. I was in shock and I was able to ride back to the truck. I was very glad that I had those pills in my bag because it took 30 minutes to get to the hospital. I still have a few pills left from my last surgery but I haven't taken any for a couple of years.
You used them just as they were intended. It's possible you wouldn't have been able to function (breathe or move) without them. And it's my view that a person's self-reliance and freedom to exercise that judgment should not be taken away just because other people misuse it and harm themselves.
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:16 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Alley Oop View Post
You used them just as they were intended. It's possible you wouldn't have been able to function (breathe or move) without them. And it's my view that a person's self-reliance and freedom to exercise that judgment should not be taken away just because other people misuse it and harm themselves.
I agree 100%.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:12 PM   #46
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It's sad to lose the great ones.

RIP Tom.
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Last edited by grommet; 01-22-2018 at 06:37 PM. Reason: Tom Petty comments welcome.
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:03 PM   #47
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Tom Petty comments welcome.
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:08 PM   #48
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Man, he had a bunch of physical issues. RIP

And you don't know how it feels
No, you don't know how it feels to be me
-- Tom Petty
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:32 PM   #49
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Tom Petty comments welcome.
I'm trying to think of one. Stay tuned.
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:26 PM   #50
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I assumed TP went one oxy too far, he had a stint with recreational heroin use as did most of the band. Once you taste cotton candy it's hard to put down, having an injury that prescribes the reason would make it impossible for most. Just off tour, king of the world, powerful people get what they want doctor Rx or not. The list is long, some close to home.
My admiration won't change, music industry pioneer bad ass and thoughtful song writer. Everyone has at least one deep TP memory, he was damn proud of that.

Tom Petty Radio is still aired on XM... voice dubs and silly intros along with the serious insight he provided about what music really is still play on. Immortal might have been the plan.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:25 PM   #51
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Related:
Bassist Howie Epstein overdosed in 2003, one of the few who could not put it down. He was bummed about the death of his 16 year old German Shepard, I can relate. A few meetings during the early Milwaukee band scene, his family and those cuban heels in the snow are permanent memories. I met a pre-Heartbreaker. If Jred reads the bio Nicolet HS was close to home.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howie_Epstein


Pandora states I listened to 36,525 songs in 2017, a good portion was Petty. How nice of them to keep track for me, the garage band loves Breakdown.
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Old 01-23-2018, 10:27 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Alley Oop View Post
I know we have a tragic epidemic of opioid deaths in the U.S. But when I'm in pain--either sciatica, back spasm, or piercing sinus headache, I want to kill it now; and none of the typical NSAIDS will touch it. So I told my doc that I like to keep opioids around the house, and he gave them to me. They last a long time, as I use them only on the occasion when I really need something that works.

I guess I'm lucky that I don't have that particular addiction gene. And I don't have the answer to the crisis. But it would be terrible for people in pain to lose access to an effective drug that relieves suffering.
No, you have it. No one is immune to opioid addiction. You have to really work at it to become addicted though, and anyone can be weaned off the shit pretty easily if they want, some will need help. The tragedy is that people turn to illegal drugs, heroin, and lately that is cut with fentanyl. Fentanyl is extremely concentrated and is responsible for many ODs. So, overreacting, calling it a crisis, is not helpful.

And it is getting to be hard for people to get what they need. It is a fact that people recover from trauma much better, surgical or otherwise, when pain is controlled. And some people live with terrible pain every day.

People like Tom Petty can buy a personal prescription writer. His experience is not really relevant.

I don’t listen to a lot of pop music, but Petty had a touch of genius for it. I love that he was so open about his influences, especially. That first TP and the HBs album still gets a turn in my listening queue regularly.
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Old 01-24-2018, 07:18 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by Tom Renda View Post
DUDE!!!!

Pharma companies are PIMPS.

Docs are working gals.

Ask me how I know.
I'm in pharma, 35 years. I'm "in the know" as well. They/we are not always the evil folks they're/we're made out to be. Pharma companies are convenient scapegoats. Are they perfect? Far from it. But to say that pharma companies are the cause of many of the nation's drug problems, it ludicrous.

And I know that you, Tom Renda, aren't saying that. I was speaking in generalities.
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Old 01-24-2018, 08:33 AM   #54
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True, where would we be without them? No doubt there have been lots of abuseswhich is par for the course when such vast sums of money are in play but on the whole the industry has benefited society immeasurably.
But everyone wants a scapegoat and everyone wants simple answers but simple answers to complicated questions are always wrong.
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Old 01-24-2018, 09:24 AM   #55
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simple answers to complicated questions are always wrong.
You are so right, Quazz!
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Old 01-24-2018, 10:43 AM   #56
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No, you have it. No one is immune to opioid addiction. You have to really work at it to become addicted though, and anyone can be weaned off the shit pretty easily if they want, some will need help. The tragedy is that people turn to illegal drugs, heroin, and lately that is cut with fentanyl. Fentanyl is extremely concentrated and is responsible for many ODs. So, overreacting, calling it a crisis, is not helpful.

And it is getting to be hard for people to get what they need. It is a fact that people recover from trauma much better, surgical or otherwise, when pain is controlled. And some people live with terrible pain every day.

People like Tom Petty can buy a personal prescription writer. His experience is not really relevant.

I don’t listen to a lot of pop music, but Petty had a touch of genius for it. I love that he was so open about his influences, especially. That first TP and the HBs album still gets a turn in my listening queue regularly.
Have you been through it yourself? My experience is that it is NOT easy. It is HELL.
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Old 01-24-2018, 02:01 PM   #57
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No, you have it. No one is immune to opioid addiction.
I don't think I'm immune just don't have the addiction disease mechanism like most alcohol and heroin addicts that makes them more susceptible. Those people really can't quit (or find it nearly impossible); and those are the ones that end up dead.

I love the feel of opioids and could become dependent on that much easier than alcohol.

It's that self-knowledge that keeps me from taking them when I don't absolutely need to. I don't want to swirl down that increasing tolerance and dependency spiral.

I quit smoking cold turkey when I joined the military. Not everyone could do that. Sure partly it's willpower but mostly because of something in their brain that makes it harder.

Petty was in a lot of pain (with knee problems, fractured hip, and so on); the hip I imagine was causing a lot of nerve pain (I cannot handle that). The pain alone is enough to necessitate high-powered narcotic analgesics. If you combine that with possible addiction issues, that's a tough fight.
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Old 01-24-2018, 02:15 PM   #58
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I'm in pharma, 35 years.
Then you remember when the drug companies would only hire sales reps with degrees in pharmacy. They were ethical and professional and came armed with company pens and doughnuts.

Now it's any hot young babe with high heels, a giant samples handbag, and the latest off-label marketing pitch.
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:34 PM   #59
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I love the feel of opioids and could become dependent on that much easier than alcohol.

It's that self-knowledge that keeps me from taking them when I don't absolutely need to. I don't want to swirl down that increasing tolerance and dependency spiral.
Same thing here. Alarm bells go off telling me I like this too much and I better not. I don't know where it comes from...
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Old 01-24-2018, 04:55 PM   #60
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Doesn't it seem logical that if some people are predisposed to alcohol addiction, that other people (or the same) might be predisposed to opioid addiction?
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